Small addition about this remark: "What I don't understand is why the highway tag is used to carry the information. The way you have mapped the trailheads Peter I would leave them under some subkey of information, e.g. tourism=information + information=board + board_type=trailhead."
Some people say: it's just the start of the route. Some say: it's basically just a parking. Some say: it's basically just a sign, a map or a board. Well, if it's just one of those then you don't need to tag them as suchthese places combine those things in a marked, designated way, and are operated and published for the purpose, that makes them worth mapping. It's the fact that Op do 3 jan. 2019 om 00:57 schreef Peter Elderson <pelder...@gmail.com>: > Thanks for the comments. Please understand that the mentioned proposal is > not my proposal. > > We just kept the idea of a trailhead node marking a place specifically and > visibly designated to start one or more hiking routes, bicycle routes, > canoe routes, horseriding routes. Just a crossing or the starting arrow > of a single route has no need for this kind of tagging. Just a map or a > board, not a trailhead. Just a parking, not a trailhead. > > In the US many trailheads have been mapped because they are places where > you are allowed to access a single trail. The may not even have a name > other than "Start of <trail name>" and a location name, but the are listed > and offered as designated trailheads. > > These simple trailheads as they have been tagged consist of a node tagged > highway=trailhead and usually the name, and someties additional tags. The > node may be standalone or may be the first node of the trail or of a > branch. The node if standalone may coincide with a board or map or > guidepost. > > So my suggestion is exactly that: use a node marked as trailhead, > preferably with a name it can be extracted, listed and rendered as being a > designated trailhead. > > In Nederland we use some further tagging to indicate the modalities and > the facilities. The trailheads are specifically designated and designed for > transit to routes of all kinds: bicycle en walking routes, roundtrips and > networks are standard, free parking space must be available, a special > landmark marks them, and there are always some benches; a restaurant or > cafe nearby. > > To see the trails starting at one of these places you best look at > Nederland on waymarkedtrails. They all have multiple hiking/foot routes and > walking routes to hop on, and most support other modalities. > Pity that the trailheads themselves are not yet rendered and clickable on > waymarkedtrails, but we are working on that. > > So tagging becomes more complicated, but the basic function is still the > same: search, list and render places specifically designed to get out of > the car and start walking, cycling etcetera. > The node in this use case will always be standalone because of the > multimodality and many routes that it serves. > > About the use of referencing tags. I agree this is not yet the best > result. Wikipedia links to the dutch page for TOP's (as they are called > here), I think that is correct. url links to a site which lists all the > official dutch trailheads. website links to the recreational publishing > sites of different official operators. Each province has its own operator > (and trailhead style). Some of those have a web page for each trailhead, > others have a simple list, others an interactive map or search function... > and they reorganise quite often. Permalinks? What? Never heard of...) so we > don't link deep but refer to a list/search/map/filter page. > > I'm sure the coming years will show what keeps and what not. > > > Op wo 2 jan. 2019 om 23:43 schreef Tobias Wrede <l...@tobias-wrede.de>: > >> Am 02.01.2019 um 19:42 Kevin Kenny wrote: >> > >> > At the risk of repeating myself: >> > >> > I think I'd need more concrete examples before I'd support such a >> > proposal. >> >> Yes, I second this request. >> >> > If 'trailhead' degenerates into 'any intersection of a trail and a >> > highway' (which is what it is in that National Park Service database) >> > then it's kind of redundant. >> >> My examples below show they are rather a placeholder for 'any >> intersection of a trail and a highway' . >> >> > It appears to me that the Europeans have >> > a more specific idea of what a 'trailhead' is - but I don't quite >> > understand that idea, and I suspect that's because there are no >> > trailheads of that sort near me, despite the fact that I'm within an >> > hour's drive of hundreds of hiking trails, including a handful of 'big >> > name' long-distance ones. >> Please don't generalize. From a German perspective I share your >> uneasiness (see my earlier remarks). Funnily, I always had the >> impression that in the US you have the more specific idea of what a >> trailhead is. :-) >> >> >> I looked at some of the trailheads in the Netherlands >> (http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/EV4): >> >> https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/6141092027 >> https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/6141092007 >> https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/6141092068 >> >> All were tourism=information + information=board but none were in any >> way connected to a trail let alone to any other highway=* feature. Often >> there wasn't even a tagged route/trail nearby. As such I understand the >> hw=trailhead is important to find such trail on the map in the first >> place if the trail itself is not or cannot be mapped. >> >> What I don't understand is why the highway tag is used to carry the >> information. The way you have mapped the trailheads Peter I would leave >> them under some subkey of information, e.g. tourism=information + >> information=board + board_type=trailhead. >> >> In the proposal the hw=trailhead is supposed to "be mapped as a node or >> a node that is part of a trail segment (i.e.,highway=path) and should be >> tagged primarily as highway=trailhead". >> (https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/trailhead#Tagging) >> >> As a side note: Looking at the examples I found that you added keys like >> wikipedia=nl:Toeristisch Overstappunt >> url=https://gpsfietsroutesnederland.nl/toeristische-overstappunten/ >> website=https://www.natuurpoorten.nl/ >> <https://gpsfietsroutesnederland.nl/toeristische-overstappunten/website=https://www.natuurpoorten.nl/> >> >> These are all generic references that could be added to the OSM wiki >> page. On the individual trailheads I would expect a website of the >> specific trail. >> >> Regards, >> >> Tobias >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Tagging mailing list >> Tagging@openstreetmap.org >> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging >> > > > -- > Vr gr Peter Elderson > -- Vr gr Peter Elderson
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