landuse=forest is used to tag tree covered area, not for how land is used

It is also basically universally interpreted this way by various data consumers.

Sep 25, 2020, 00:05 by

> Steve,
> Just a reminder, landuse is to tag what the land is used for. landuse=forest 
> is for areas that have harvestable wood products, ie trees. Just because 
> there was a fire doesn't mean the landuse changes. Landcover is a better tag 
> for burnt areas as well as areas just clearcut. 
> On Thu, Sep 24, 2020 at 2:31 PM stevea <>> > wrote:
>> I didn't get a single reply on this (see below), which I find surprising, 
>> especially as there are currently even larger fires that are more widespread 
>> all across the Western United States.
>>  I now ask if there are additional, appropriate polygons with tags I'm not 
>> familiar with regarding landcover that might be added to the map (as 
>> "landuse=forest" might be strictly true now only in a 'zoning' sense, as 
>> many of the actual trees that MAKE these forests have sadly burned down, or 
>> substantially so).
>>  Considering that there are literally millions and millions of acres of 
>> (newly) burned areas (forest, scrub, grassland, residential, commercial, 
>> industrial, public, private...), I'm surprised that OSM doesn't have some 
>> well-pondered and actual tags that reflect this situation.  My initial 
>> tagging of this (simply tagged, but enormous) polygon as "fire=perimeter" 
>> was coined on my part, but as I search wiki, taginfo and Overpass Turbo 
>> queries for similar data in the map, I come up empty.
>>  First, do others think it is important that we map these?  I say yes, as 
>> this fire has absolutely enormous impact to what we do and might map here, 
>> both present and future.  The aftermath of this fire (>85,000 acres this 
>> fire alone) will last for decades, and for OSM to not reflect this in the 
>> map (somehow, better bolstered than a simple, though huge, polygon tagged 
>> with fire=perimeter, start_date and end_date) seems OSM "cartographically 
>> misses something."  I know that HOT mappers map the "present- and 
>> aftermath-" of humanitarian disasters, I've HOT-participated myself.  So, 
>> considering the thousands of structures that burned (most of them homes), 
>> tens of thousands of acres which are burn-scarred and distinctly different 
>> than their landcover, millions of trees (yes, really) and even landuse is 
>> now currently tagged, I look for guidance — beyond the simple tag of 
>> fire=perimeter on a large polygon.
>>  Second, if we do choose to "better" map these incidents and results (they 
>> are life- and planet-altering on a grand scale) how might we choose to do 
>> that?  Do we have landcover tags which could replace landuse=forest or 
>> natural=wood with something like natural=fire_scarred?  (I'm making that up, 
>> but it or something like it could work).  How and when might we replace 
>> these with something less severe?  On the other hand, if it isn't 
>> appropriate that we map any of this, please say so.
>>  Thank you, especially any guidance offered from HOT contributors who have 
>> worked on post-fire humanitarian disasters,
>>  SteveA
>>  California (who has returned home after evacuation, relatively safe now 
>> that this fire is 100% contained)
>>  On Aug 29, 2020, at 7:20 PM, stevea <>>>> > wrote:
>>  > Not sure if crossposting to talk-us is correct, but it is a "home list" 
>> for me.
>>  > 
>>  > I've created a large fire perimeter in OSM from public sources, >> 
>>>>  .  This is a huge fire (sadly, there are 
>> larger ones right now, too), over 130 square miles, and caused the 
>> evacuation of every third person in my county (yes).  There are hundreds, 
>> perhaps thousands of structures, mostly residential homes, which have burned 
>> down and the event has "completely changed" giant redwoods in and the 
>> character of California's oldest state park (Big Basin).
>>  > 
>>  > This perimeter significantly affects landuse, landcover and human 
>> patterns of movement and activity in this part of the world for a 
>> significant time to come.  It is a "major disaster."  I'm curious how HOT 
>> teams might delineate such a thing (and I've participated in a HOT fire 
>> team, mapping barns, water sources for helicopter dips and other human 
>> structures during a large fire near me), I've simply made a polygon tagged 
>> fire=perimeter, a name=* tag and a start_date.  I don't expect rendering, 
>> it's meant to be an "up to right about here" (inside the polygon is/was a 
>> burning fire, outside was no fire).  I wouldn't say it is more accurate than 
>> 20 to 50 meters on any edge, an "across a wide street" distance to be "off" 
>> is OK with me, considering this fire's size, but if a slight skew jiggles 
>> the whole thing into place better, feel free to nudge.  It's the tagging I'm 
>> interested in getting right, and perhaps wondering if or even that people 
>> enter gigantic fires that will significantly change landscape for some time 
>> into OSM, as I have done.  This will affect my local mapping, as a great 
>> much has burned.  Even after starting almost two weeks ago, as of 20 minutes 
>> ago this fire is 33% contained, with good, steady progress.  These men and 
>> women are heroes.
>>  > 
>>  > To me, this is a significant polygon in my local mapping:  it is a "huge 
>> thing" that is a major feature on a map, especially right now.  I firmly 
>> believe it belongs in OSM for many reasons and want it tagged "correctly."  
>> Yes, there are other maps that show this, I believe OSM should have these 
>> data, too, as this perimeter will affect much (in the real world) and much 
>> newer, updated mapping in OSM going forward.
>>  _______________________________________________
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>>  >>
>>  >>
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