Re: "that schema was lying dead until iD decided to introduce it as the
only way to tag water"

That's not really correct when it comes to landuse=reservoir

In this case, landuse=reservoir growth slowed down in 2016 for reasons that
are unclear to me:

Compare the charts:
https://taghistory.raifer.tech/#***/landuse/reservoir&***/water/reservoir

Until mild 2016 landuse=reservoir was still increasing as fast or faster
than water=reservoir
But 5 years after the water proposal was approved, this changed:
water=reservoir continued increasing linearly, but landuse=reservoir slowed
down to half the prior rate.

It's fair to say that between mid 2016 and mid 2019, water=reservoir was
twice as popular as landuse=reservoir for adding new features

Then of course the change to the iD Editor in mid 2019 caused another
inflection and landuse=reservoir started decreasing, but the water=* schema
was not "lying dead" in this case, it was already more popular.

Perhaps you are instead remembering the situation with waterway=riverbank
vs water=river. In that case it appears that iD really did start the main
change, because waterway=riverbank continued to be equally popular or more
popular than water=river for new features until mild-2019 (except perhaps
during 2017 for some reason?):
https://taghistory.raifer.tech/#***/water/river&***/waterway/riverbank

I would be more irritated about an attempt to deprecate waterway=riverbank,
because in that case there is more risk of information loss: a reservoir
and natural=water are both historically defined as standing fresh water and
in most cases will be rendered the same (though having the information if a
lake is natural or artificial is still important). But a river is flowing
water and is often rendered differently, and tagging as natural=water risks
losing this information invisibly, if the water=river tag is accidentally
or intentionally deleted - this is partially the fault of
OpenStreetMap-Carto for not yet rendering any difference between rivers and
standing water.

-- Joseph Eisenberg

On Sun, Dec 13, 2020 at 9:49 AM Tomas Straupis <tomasstrau...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> 2020-12-13, sk, 19:18 Mateusz Konieczny via Tagging rašė:
> > New/duplicate schema with water=reservoir only launched because iD
> > coders decided to skip standard IT processes of product development
> > (or were not familiar with the basics of IT) and simply went for what
> > they personally liked, not what was better
> >
> > This is 100% untrue, and you insult people. Stop making such things.
> >
> > For start, iD authors (also ones that made decisions about tagging
> > presets that I consider to be mistakes and going against consensus)
> > had no problem with basics of IT and IT processes of product development.
> >
> > water=reservoir was launched (created) in 2011
> > see https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Water_details
> > iD started in 2012 ( https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/ID )
>
>   Mateusz, can you point out which of my claims is a lie?
>   I didn't say iD invented duplicate schema, I said that schema was
> lying dead until iD decided to introduce it as the only way to tag
> water, introduction "launched" new water schema adding any
> considerable usage (as it was the only option for iD mappers).
>
>   Introducing duplicate and unused schema (especially as the only
> option) is not a good IT decision, basic analysis should have shown
> that. But in case of id it was technology leading functionality and
> thus leading users when in IT it must be the other way round -
> usage/requirements must lead technical decisions. That is IT BASICS.
> Lack of such understanding is the reason why I claim iD developers
> lacked basic IT knowledge.
>
> > , and introduced
> > water=reservoir as the only way to tag, all this at the time when
> > water=reservoir usage was close to zero!
> >
> > See https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/tags/water=reservoir#chronology
> >
> > Usage in January 2019 was about 200 000 already.
> >
> > "water=reservoir usage was close to zero" is untrue
>
>   Key word "introduced" so it is 2012, not 2019.
>   water=reservoir usage in 2012 is close to zero.
>
> > It is deprecated by 2011 proposal, see
> >
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Water_details#Deprecation
>
>   The author of this proposal agreed that standard water schema is NOT
> deprecated. And a few people voting in wiki cannot deprecate a tag.
> Only people actually mapping can do that.
>
> > BTW, you are AGAIN spreading false statements and claim that iD
> > invented water=reservoir. Please stop doing this.
>
>   Do not copy/paste my words in random order and you will not get such
> claims from me :-)
>
>   Anyways, there is no way I will be able to teach IT things people
> who do not want to learn. Let's not rewrite the history of this saga
> and lets move forward instead of repeating the same discussion again
> and again. Let's do what is possible so that this does not happen
> again:
>
>   * When tagging schema CAN be changed and when it CAN NOT?
>   * What ADVANTAGES are required to allow deprecating current schema?
>
> --
> Tomas
>
> _______________________________________________
> Tagging mailing list
> Tagging@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
>
_______________________________________________
Tagging mailing list
Tagging@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging

Reply via email to