Re: "that schema was lying dead until iD decided to introduce it as the only way to tag water"
That's not really correct when it comes to landuse=reservoir In this case, landuse=reservoir growth slowed down in 2016 for reasons that are unclear to me: Compare the charts: https://taghistory.raifer.tech/#***/landuse/reservoir&***/water/reservoir Until mild 2016 landuse=reservoir was still increasing as fast or faster than water=reservoir But 5 years after the water proposal was approved, this changed: water=reservoir continued increasing linearly, but landuse=reservoir slowed down to half the prior rate. It's fair to say that between mid 2016 and mid 2019, water=reservoir was twice as popular as landuse=reservoir for adding new features Then of course the change to the iD Editor in mid 2019 caused another inflection and landuse=reservoir started decreasing, but the water=* schema was not "lying dead" in this case, it was already more popular. Perhaps you are instead remembering the situation with waterway=riverbank vs water=river. In that case it appears that iD really did start the main change, because waterway=riverbank continued to be equally popular or more popular than water=river for new features until mild-2019 (except perhaps during 2017 for some reason?): https://taghistory.raifer.tech/#***/water/river&***/waterway/riverbank I would be more irritated about an attempt to deprecate waterway=riverbank, because in that case there is more risk of information loss: a reservoir and natural=water are both historically defined as standing fresh water and in most cases will be rendered the same (though having the information if a lake is natural or artificial is still important). But a river is flowing water and is often rendered differently, and tagging as natural=water risks losing this information invisibly, if the water=river tag is accidentally or intentionally deleted - this is partially the fault of OpenStreetMap-Carto for not yet rendering any difference between rivers and standing water. -- Joseph Eisenberg On Sun, Dec 13, 2020 at 9:49 AM Tomas Straupis <tomasstrau...@gmail.com> wrote: > 2020-12-13, sk, 19:18 Mateusz Konieczny via Tagging rašė: > > New/duplicate schema with water=reservoir only launched because iD > > coders decided to skip standard IT processes of product development > > (or were not familiar with the basics of IT) and simply went for what > > they personally liked, not what was better > > > > This is 100% untrue, and you insult people. Stop making such things. > > > > For start, iD authors (also ones that made decisions about tagging > > presets that I consider to be mistakes and going against consensus) > > had no problem with basics of IT and IT processes of product development. > > > > water=reservoir was launched (created) in 2011 > > see https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Water_details > > iD started in 2012 ( https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/ID ) > > Mateusz, can you point out which of my claims is a lie? > I didn't say iD invented duplicate schema, I said that schema was > lying dead until iD decided to introduce it as the only way to tag > water, introduction "launched" new water schema adding any > considerable usage (as it was the only option for iD mappers). > > Introducing duplicate and unused schema (especially as the only > option) is not a good IT decision, basic analysis should have shown > that. But in case of id it was technology leading functionality and > thus leading users when in IT it must be the other way round - > usage/requirements must lead technical decisions. That is IT BASICS. > Lack of such understanding is the reason why I claim iD developers > lacked basic IT knowledge. > > > , and introduced > > water=reservoir as the only way to tag, all this at the time when > > water=reservoir usage was close to zero! > > > > See https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/tags/water=reservoir#chronology > > > > Usage in January 2019 was about 200 000 already. > > > > "water=reservoir usage was close to zero" is untrue > > Key word "introduced" so it is 2012, not 2019. > water=reservoir usage in 2012 is close to zero. > > > It is deprecated by 2011 proposal, see > > > https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Water_details#Deprecation > > The author of this proposal agreed that standard water schema is NOT > deprecated. And a few people voting in wiki cannot deprecate a tag. > Only people actually mapping can do that. > > > BTW, you are AGAIN spreading false statements and claim that iD > > invented water=reservoir. Please stop doing this. > > Do not copy/paste my words in random order and you will not get such > claims from me :-) > > Anyways, there is no way I will be able to teach IT things people > who do not want to learn. Let's not rewrite the history of this saga > and lets move forward instead of repeating the same discussion again > and again. Let's do what is possible so that this does not happen > again: > > * When tagging schema CAN be changed and when it CAN NOT? > * What ADVANTAGES are required to allow deprecating current schema? > > -- > Tomas > > _______________________________________________ > Tagging mailing list > Tagging@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging >
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