For what it's worth I agree with Darrin. In Sydney and suburbs the 2 colour "small roundabouts" are popping up everywhere. Motorist routinely drive over the concrete outer apron and only trucks and buses drive over the middle red brick print (normally when turning). They may or may not be wider than the roads, but you will be booked turning right over them instead of taking "the third exit". These can't be mini-roundabouts to my way of thinking. You also cannot drive straight through the intersection - all my traces show a bowing pattern even when I overrun the apron.
Mini-roundabouts where they are either painted roundabouts or a tiny single-colour concrete dome are rare, but exist. Again my traces show a bow pattern around them. I also count them as a roundabout when I am counting "go through 3 roundabouts" as they are signposted as such. Lastly given mini-roundabouts are an exception I'd use a normal roundabout - I would not remove a roundabout in favour of a mini-roundabout. In English villages they tend to drive a bit more agriculturally IMHO, and the mini-roundabouts are more traffic-taming than traffic-directing rarely are there two cars meeting at that mini-roundabout. So I think the "mini" is a device created to say "technically" it's a roundabout but nobody would seriously treat it as one. I've seen one at meeting of two x 1.5 lane wide country "roads" outside Manchester. You couldn't drive around the outside of it. In summary a mini-roundabout is a drawing on the ground or similarly non-hazardous, non-speed limiting, indication. They almost don't exist in Sydney. Regards Paul -- Paul Zagoridis email: pa...@zagz.com blog: http://wealthesteem.org Wealth is created between your ears personal blog: http://zagz.com mobile: +61 414 707 343 skype: paul.zagoridis -- Join me on your network of choice LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/paulzag Xing: http://www.xing.com/go/invite/3306344.2a5ab0 Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/people/Paul_Zagoridis/815205625 ecademy: http://www.ecademy.com/user/paulzagoridis -----Original Message----- From: talk-au-boun...@openstreetmap.org [mailto:talk-au-boun...@openstreetmap.org] On Behalf Of Darrin Smith Sent: Friday, 12 December 2008 8:43 PM To: talk-au@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [talk-au] *Round*abouts On Fri, 12 Dec 2008 19:31:34 +1100 Liz <ed...@billiau.net> wrote: > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roundabout#Mini_roundabouts > > "Mini-roundabouts can be a painted circle, a low dome, or often are > small garden beds. Painted roundabouts and low domes can easily be > driven over by most vehicles, which many motorists will do when there > is no other traffic, but the practice is dangerous if other cars are > present." Right, 3/4 of that backs up what I'm saying. Yes it says small garden bed but further down in the same section it proceeds to eliminate it as a mini roundabout. > "Whilst it may be physically possible, it is illegal for vehicles > like cars, which can turn around the mini-roundabout, to go over the > painted island, or around the wrong way- vehicles should treat it > like a solid island and proceed around it. (In practice, few > motorists obey these rules). " This backs up what I'm saying exactly. Notice how they talk about it being physically possible for a normal car to go *over* the island. I challenge you to find an example in any of the pics of the roundabouts we've discussed where a conventional car can cross them in any manner at speed and not be significantly damaged. > When I read this I see that motorists may be found driving over these > things, but it's illegal; it's dangerous Yes, so, it's illegal and dangerous to go through a red light, but we map traffic signals. It is very useful however to know one is approaching a roundabout which DOESN'T have a centre island for exactly this reason however since there are drivers who will break the rules it helps to be fore-warned to be a little more careful. > "A slightly larger version of a mini-roundabout, sometimes called a > "small roundabout", is designed with a raised centre surrounded by a > sloped "overrun area" of a different colour from the roadway and up > to a meter in thickness called a "truck apron" or a "mountable > apron"." The wording in this sentence is inconsistent with the rest of the article, as further down in that same document it says: "The centre island also MUST BE ABLE TO BY OVER-RUN BY LARGE VEHICLES. If this is not possible, perhaps due to plants, or street furniture it is considered a small roundabout NOT A MINI ROUNDABOUT and as such must adhere to the stricter roundabout guidelines." (My emphasis added) It doesn't say parts of the centre island, it says THE center island. A little flange is not the whole center island. And I fully suspect the roundabouts in the area where you put a mini in the other day that there was no flange there anyway, so it's a little academic in those cases. And did you know how the sentence I quoted indicates a small roundabout is NOT a mini roundabout. So the text of the document is doubtful at bet. I challenge you to find a picture posted by someone NOT furthering this lists mini_roundabout agenda that show a mini with a raised centre island. English wikipedia won't help you, neither will the german one, nor will the OSM Wiki. -- =b _______________________________________________ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au _______________________________________________ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
