On 23/4/22 11:22, Graeme Fitzpatrick wrote:
Thanks all!
Yeah, the various wiki comments re size as always are very European &
don't suit Oz conditions.
I think that place=farm + name=* seems to be the way to go, so I'll
test that & see how it works?
One of the factors in OP making them hamlets could have been that that
will render, so will have to see if =farm does as well?
I think farm does render on the standard map. See Node: Mundi Mundi
(2648982062) for farm and Way: Mundi Mundi (259480275) for homestead.
https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/2648982062#map=17/-31.88185/141.04014
Thanks
Graeme
On Fri, 22 Apr 2022 at 18:39, cleary <[email protected]> wrote:
Generally, I would suggest a node at the hub of the farm (usually
in the vicinity of the main residence)
place=farm
name=*
operator=*
In regard to farm boundaries, I think it has been OSM practice not
to map lot/property boundaries.
Most farms today don't employ many people and employees frequently
live in nearby towns etc. so place=farm is appropriate. In more
isolated areas, some very large farms may still accommodate
workers and sometimes their families - in such cases
place=isolated_dwelling might be appropriate as I think it implies
a larger population than a farm. I'd suggest that it has many
years since Australian farms had enough residents to be considered
as hamlets. In fact, increasingly farms have no residents. In some
cases multiple farms are operated from a single homestead but, if
each farm is separately named, I think each should still be
separately mapped. Farms with animals such as dairy cattle or
poultry etc may need people on site overnight but grazing cattle
and crops such as cotton/wheat/rice etc may not need people in the
immediate vicinity - and security cameras and alarms are
increasingly used so that people can go to off-farm homes at
night. The "homestead" may become an administrative office plus
staff facilities when there is no-one resident on the property.
In some cases, where public roads go through farms (usually cattle
grids and signs at the respective boundaries), I have added
is_in:farm=* on the section of road that is within the particular
farm, but the "is_in" tag seems now less used than in the past.
Perhaps there is a case for mapping lot/property boundaries where
the properties are very large farms but I will leave that for
others to advocate. In South Australia's pastoral district, each
farm has its own "suburb" boundaries in the official government
suburb/locality database - but I am not aware of any farm
boundaries designated in this way in any other state.
On Fri, 22 Apr 2022, at 3:27 PM, Bob Cameron wrote:
> Remote areas and larger farms generally have been troubling me too
> Graeme. I make no distinction about numbers of people, just a
> landuse=farm node. (so I copied a very prolific mapper!) Recently I
> noted that landuse:farm has been deprecated and to use
> landuse:farmland, but that complains about being a node. There
is no
> easy way to define a farm boundary. I think in terms of the
mailbox,
> driveway and largest concentration of activity being the node
centre.
>
> And the name is the farm name, not the house name.. maybe!
>
> Remote cattle stations can support an extended family (in more
than one
> homestead) and other many onsite (staff) people. Are the working
farm
> staff include in any people sizing calculations? ouch!
>
> Personally I don't think it a good idea to tag a farm that creates
> commercial income with any notion of the number of people. It
gets a
> bit blurry when it is an unusual group like a religious order or
non
> profit retreat, but they already have other tags.
>
> Cheers Bob
>
> On 22/4/22 14:55, Graeme Fitzpatrick wrote:
>> Also bringing discussion out here from Discord.
>>
>> An anonymous user is hitting Notes with quite a few entries
yesterday to say that remote homesteads are incorrectly tagged as
hamlets eg https://www.openstreetmap.org/note/3145380, but looking
at this particular place
https://www.openstreetmap.org/edit?node=1829712552#map=17/-21.96106/148.80882,
I'd say that "hamlet" was probably correct in that there could
well be a couple of families living there?
>>
>> Other suggestions that have been made are
place=isolated_dwelling or place=farm.
>>
>> Bit of a grey area, I guess? Isolated-dwelling says 1-2
families only, hamlet says 100-200 people, while place=farm says
"a family of farmers". Guess it really depends on the particular
property involved, which would require detailed local knowledge?
>>
>> Thoughts?
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> Graeme
>>
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