Looking at your Kew Gardens tag it looks excellent with just one issue. It's correctly tagged for all 3 networks in one as "National Rail;London Underground;London Overground" but it does tag both stop positions on the two oposite direction tracks as railway="station" which i feel should both be changed to be railway="stop" or public_transport="platform" and a new, single node should be railway="station" for the entire station?
I must have missed those station tags on the stop positions first time round, I did say I attempted to do it :) I've removed those now, and I think the "station" property is captured in the area represented by way 199669935 which surrounds the whole station. On 8 March 2013 23:49, James Churchman <[email protected]> wrote: > Hi Aidan, thanks for such a fast reply! > > Yes very messy indeed!! > Great i had a good read of that link you sent along with > http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:railway%3Dstation and a few > others. > > Reading : > --- > * For simple modeling of simple stations with a single track (or one > in each direction) just add a node with railway=station and name=* at > an appropriate point on the railway (tagged railway=rail, > railway=subway etc). > * For complex or larger stations it is often best to create a node > within the main concourse area and use a public_transport=stop_area to > associate this with the rest of the elements of the station. > --- > > It sounds like uk tube stations that are largely underground the best > thing is just a node. For larger stations there should still be a node > but also but add it to a relation and additionally tag the Node as a > "Stop Area" and along with an Area for the building="station" .. but > the building="station" Area is not sufficient to be a station its > self.. it needs a node > > Further down : > --- > * There should only be a single railway=station tag for each station. > Where there are multiple nodes for a single station then consider > converting the station to the area format and moving the relevant tags > (including the name etc) to this area and remove the station tag from > all the existing 'station' nodes. > * Where a mainline station and metro station (or other railway like > station) are physically connected, consider if they should be modeled > as separate stations or as a single station. The associated Wikipedia > article for the facilities might assist with the decision. If the > facilities are run by separate organisations (for example a heritage > station next to a mainline station) then it is probably better to map > them using two separate railway=station tags. > --- > > So this would indicate that only one "station" tag should ever be used .. > > Looking at your Kew Gardens tag it looks excellent with just one > issue. It's correctly tagged for all 3 networks in one as "National > Rail;London Underground;London Overground" but it does tag both stop > positions on the two oposite direction tracks as railway="station" > which i feel should both be changed to be railway="stop" or > public_transport="platform" and a new, single node should be > railway="station" for the entire station? > > Think i am starting to understand how it should be done :-) > > BR > > James > > On 8 March 2013 21:35, Aidan McGinley <[email protected]> > wrote: > > James, > > > > Seems like a bit of a mess alright. Take a look at the approved proposal > > for public transport which should be the standard to work towards I would > > think - > > http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Public_Transport > > > > I attempted to apply this to Kew Gardens station a while back > > (http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=51.47707&lon=-0.28496&zoom=17) it's > not > > exactly straightforward, and I'm not sure how well it would work when the > > station is entirely underground like much of central London. > > > > Aidan > > > > On 8 March 2013 21:05, James Churchman <[email protected]> wrote: > >> > >> Hi Guys > >> > >> I was originally attempting to get all the London Underground Tube > >> stations and Rail stations from OSM ( london xml file ) > >> > >> The issues with the data I have had are : > >> > >> 1) Some stations are tagged as Nodes, some as Ways and some as Relations > >> > >> London Bridge is large area Way: > >> http://www.openstreetmap.org/edit?lat=51.50426&lon=-0.084887&zoom=18 > >> and is tagged as a "building" of type "station" and "railway" "station" > >> > >> Westminister Tube station is tagged as a Node > >> http://www.openstreetmap.org/edit?lat=51.501144&lon=-0.125211&zoom=19 > >> of type "railway" "station" this possibly makes sense to be a Node as > >> its too small to be a Way.. > >> > >> Waterloo station is a Way > >> http://www.openstreetmap.org/edit?lat=51.503282&lon=-0.113125&zoom=18 > >> but this time type "building" "station" ( rather than "train_station" > >> as London bridge is ) ( and also "railway" "station" ) > >> but it's also grouped as a Relation of type "site" "railway_station" > >> > >> > >> > >> Maybe some being Nodes, Ways or Relations makes good sense, but maybe > >> it does not... maybe all stations should be a Node ( London Bridge has > >> no Nodes just a single Way ) and then station buildings should just be > >> buildings.. that would at least be more consistant .. the buildings > >> could always be put into a Relation with the Node if needed ? > >> > >> Also types of "train_station" and "station" etc... should this not be > >> standardised? > >> > >> > >> 2) Stations tagged multiple times (this is a much bigger problem) ! > >> > >> Approximately 75 % of all London Underground Tube stations are tagged > >> with a Node multiple times, the distribution looks like this: > >> > >> 0 times : e.g. London Bridge, this is only a Way there is no Node for > >> either the Rail or Tube > >> > >> 1 single time : this is the rarest case and as far as I can see the > >> correct case > >> Borough, Farringdon, St James' Park, Westminister and a few others are > >> the few single tagged Tube stations in London > >> > >> e.g Farringdon looks fine > >> http://www.openstreetmap.org/edit?mlat=51.52056&mlon=-0.10504&zoom=18 > >> its a single node of "railway" type "station" and has the two > >> "networks" correctly attributed to it of "National Rail;London > >> Underground". The only issue that i can see with Farringdon is as with > >> many other tube stations it has a additional russian name "name:ru" of > >> "Фаррингдон" > >> > >> > >> 2,3,4 or even more tages for the same station .. > >> > >> High Street Kensington : > >> http://www.openstreetmap.org/edit?lat=51.5008&lon=-0.19269&zoom=19 has > >> 4 tags .. each one joined to a rail line > >> > >> Piccadilly Circus > >> http://www.openstreetmap.org/edit?lat=51.510003&lon=-0.134754&zoom=18 > >> is tagged twice ( once under a different way ) > >> > >> Lambeth North is again tagged twice ( once under a way ) > >> http://www.openstreetmap.org/edit?lat=51.499021&lon=-0.112524&zoom=18 > >> > >> Oxford Circus Tube Station is not taged at all. but instead the 4 > >> exits are tagged singularly as type "railway" and "subway_entrance" .. > >> http://www.openstreetmap.org/edit?lat=51.515258&lon=-0.141406&zoom=18 > >> though they all do seem to be grouped into a Relation of > >> "public_transport" "stop_area" > >> Is this level of tagging required, and would an actual "station" tag > >> in the centre of these 4 entrances simply denoting the station itself > >> be better ? ---as it is no station at all is plotted on osm.org > >> > >> Green Park Tube Station is similar again with no tagged station but > >> many tagged entrances > >> > >> > https://maps.google.co.uk/maps?client=safari&oe=UTF-8&ie=UTF-8&q=green+park&fb=1&gl=uk&hq=green+park&cid=0,0,15806140768408957347&ei=8To6UcfADM-w7AbP_oHQCA&ved=0CKwBEPwSMAA > >> http://www.openstreetmap.org/edit?lat=51.506934&lon=-0.142474&zoom=18 > >> > >> > >> Waterloo Station is tagged once as a large area Way, and then 5 > >> separate times as well as Nodes detonating a station > >> http://www.openstreetmap.org/edit?lat=51.50246&lon=-0.11246&zoom=17 > >> they are dotted all about the place, some on lower layers, some for > >> one train line or another .. > >> > >> > >> 3 ) Also there is the issue of networks tagging .. > >> Some stations are tagged as "London Underground" or "National Rail" as > >> they should, but some that are both a dual are tagged with two nodes > >> one for each rather that a single node of "National Rail;London > >> Underground" for example. eg Kensington Olympia is tagged twice, once > >> with "London Overground" and once with "National Rail;London > >> Underground" > >> > >> > >> So in conclusion the problems I have found with Rail and Tube stations > are > >> : > >> a) Tagged as Ways, Nodes or Relations; sometimes all 3, sometimes just > >> a Node, sometimes a building Way of type "station", but no Node. > >> > >> b) Duplicated stations: sometimes an identical tagging many many many > >> times. Sometimes the Rail and the Tube are placed as separate stations > >> when they should be combined, sometimes there is a Way and also a > >> Node, sometimes there is a station for every Rail line/track that > >> comes into the actual station > >> > >> c) Stations are not taged at all, but instead the exits are all tagged > >> as an exit, that are sometimes grouped as a exit relation > >> > >> d) Inconsistant tagging eg some are "train_station" and others just > >> "station" > >> > >> ( e) odd Russian names for many of the stations ) > >> > >> > >> This is just from the ones I have looked at so far, I will look > >> further in the mean time but asking from the OSM data the position of > >> Rail and Tube stations in London is a very non-trivial task. Is there > >> something missing from my understating, or does a refurbishment of the > >> rail stations data for London needed? maybe something like every > >> station is a single node placed at the approximate center, and then > >> "exits" or station buildings are separately tagged and grouped into > >> relations a long with the original point, and that a standard > >> "station" and not the "railway_station" tag is chosen ? Also do these > >> kinds of issues exist for other cities both around the uk and the data > >> for the rest of the world, and is it limited to stations? > >> > >> Hope this has been helpful & can hopefully can get a discussion going > >> about what i am missing and what might be able to be done to help! > >> > >> Best regards > >> > >> James > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Talk-GB mailing list > >> [email protected] > >> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb > > > > >
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