I'm a "retired" climber. It would certainly have been useful to have had maps of crags (the old guidebooks just had drawings of the crags and an OS reference) and a smart phone to locate the general area of a climb if not the actual start. From memory, many of the larger crags also have named areas so this would be a useful. Knowing the location of the most "famous" climbs on a crag can also give you a good reference point. Abseil points in a place likes Gogarth would also be good. A couple of friends convinced themselves they had done a climb in Wales only to discover they had done the wrong route on the wrong crag in the wrong valley!!
I'm not sure I would get out my old climbing books to do this even though the names aren't copyright but walking along a crag and asking people what climbs they were on and waypointing this information would seem a reasonable thing to do. From the sounds of it I could also take the guidebook into the field and do this. Putting some information on the wiki about the legal situation would be helpful as it will probably be some time before I might do this on some of our local crags. Regards Dudley From: [email protected] Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2013 14:26:47 +0100 To: [email protected] CC: [email protected] Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] Mapping climbing routes/areas. I think a certain amount of judgement has to be applied when mapping, and recognising that trademarks are limited in scope. I suspect mapping the route "Nike Air Max" http://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/c.php?i=233225 might be a bad idea. But mapping "Nike" http://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/c.php?i=17702 when it's sat next to "Pegasus" is probably in the clear. For me, mapping the crag and one or two landmark routes would provide most of the usefulness; "Do they mean that cliff with a tree half way up, or /that/ cliff with a tree half way up, and which of these vague paths through the woods do I take to get there?" The wiki proposal suggests mapping a vertical climb as a POI at the botom (and making that the minimum for climbs), and creating a way where there's significant horizontal distance (which ountain multi-pitching often has). On 23 October 2013 12:12, Jonathan <[email protected]> wrote: As I said, I'm not a lawyer, just erring on the side of caution. My worry is that if you add the "Nike Chimney" (fake name) as a climbing route, we may be using something that is not without legal encumbrance. I'm just paranoid :-) I would suggest that if anyone goes out, surveys and climbs their own route and then uploads to OSM then that would be fine. On a further note, I don't know how you map a vertical route on a flat map? Jonathan http://bigfatfrog67.me On 23/10/2013 11:54, Derry Hamilton wrote: Hi Jonathan, I believe the lack of copyright on route names and location was settled in BMC vs Rockfax, when the BMC sued on exactly that basis and lost, but I don't have a cite to hand. Thanks, Derry On 23 October 2013 11:13, Jonathan <[email protected]> wrote: Hi Derry, I'm no lawyer, but if the route name was first used in a copyrighted publication and never used before that publication then they *may* have claim to it. Bear in mind that while a route name may not be covered by copyright it may be covered by a trademark!? Jonathan http://bigfatfrog67.me On 23/10/2013 07:43, Derry Hamilton wrote: Opinions I've seen are that route names are not copyrightable, any more than road or mountain names. _______________________________________________ Talk-GB mailing list [email protected] https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb _______________________________________________ Talk-GB mailing list [email protected] https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb _______________________________________________ Talk-GB mailing list [email protected] https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb _______________________________________________ Talk-GB mailing list [email protected] https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
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