Sorry, the link to the changeset is incomplete in my last email, here is the correct one: https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/50943658 Cheers M
-- *Miguel Sevilla-Callejo* Doctor en Geografía On 9 August 2017 at 23:40, Miguel Sevilla-Callejo <[email protected]> wrote: > Hello again, > > I started to edit around and within Aberystwyth, Wales. Yesterday I did an > edition to fix the bilingual labelling of some streets as I explained > before in this thread but other user (Mike Baggaley) is asking to me to > remove and change a neutral approach for labelling the streets [1]. > > I understood that this list is the proper place to discuss and to start a > consensus in the way to edit within the UK. > > So I would like to translate here why I'm using a neutral approach for the > bilingual tagging in Wales: mainly because I'm following the wiki. > > I'll invite Mike Baggaley or whoever thinks I'm doing an inappropriate > editions to consider joint this thread here and argue about. > > Just in case, next, I copy and paste my reply to Mike Baggaley in the > changeset discussion where I explained mi position: > > "I disagree with you [to not use "Welsh name / English name" for "name" > tag]. > > If you please read the wiki you will read how to tag in multilingual > situations. > > First, "name" tag could be use as you can see in street sings [1]. You can > check on Mapillary how are labelled [2][3] > > Second, "Welsh name / English name" label for "name" tag is recommended > for a neutral or bilingual version in Wales [4]. > > Moreover, from the legal point of view, in Wales, in general, and in > Ceredigion Council, in particular, Welsh is as important as English [5]. > Even Ordnance Survey has labelled some streets of Aberystwyth in both > languages in their maps! [6] > > In conclusion, it is not necessary to change my editions because are > appropriates." > > Bests > > Miguel > > [0] https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/ > [1] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:name > [2] https://www.mapillary.com/map/im/BVAjyV5Yt6hediIk7Lqv4w > [3] https://www.mapillary.com/map/im/j1ngoo9wTxbfXfnMdcEGVA > [4] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Multilingual_names#Wales "In the > name field, a neutral or a bilingual version can be entered." > [5] http://www.legislation.gov.uk/mwa/2011/1/contents > [6] http://map.ceredigion.gov.uk/connect/?mapcfg=COMMUNITY_AND_LIVING > > > -- > *Miguel Sevilla-Callejo* > Doctor en Geografía > > On 27 July 2017 at 14:48, Miguel Sevilla-Callejo <[email protected]> > wrote: > >> Hi again, >> >> As far as I understand the wiki, my experience in Spanish bilingual >> situations and the common sense (as you can see in street signals) I'm >> going to change name=* to a neutral way as far as I could because is non >> sense to have only English name in name=* tag (and adding name:en=* if do >> not exist). >> >> I see (may be SK53 add them) there are name:cy tag in many streets [1] so >> is as easy to edit name=* adding the Welsh name before as you can see in >> the streets, add name:en=* if necessary. >> >> Cheers >> >> Miguel >> >> [1] e.g. way of the photo http://imgur.com/VkxGasm --> >> http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/152547339 >> >> -- >> *Miguel Sevilla-Callejo* >> Doctor en Geografía >> >> On 27 July 2017 at 14:29, SK53 <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> Hi Miguel, >>> >>> I tend to agree with you. However, we have never had a consensus on >>> which approach to use. Perhaps because we have few mappers in Wales and >>> even fewer who are Welsh speakers by preference. Certainly using an English >>> road name in Welsh-speaking areas of Wales is likely to put off Welsh >>> speakers from contributing, so I tend to regard using both names as a >>> quasi-political compromise. It's not easy to parse but will be intelligible >>> to all, and does not require the elaborate explanation about name:en and >>> name:cy. >>> >>> So be prepared for people querying this approach. >>> >>> From a perspective of entering the data it is important to add name:en >>> and name:cy. >>> >>> Ironically I have been using Aber to test a mapnik overlay of Welsh >>> names, so more data would be very useful. >>> >>> Jerry >>> >>> On 27 July 2017 at 14:15, Miguel Sevilla-Callejo <[email protected]> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Hello Phil, >>>> >>>> Thanks for your reply, great to know someone is editing or/checking >>>> editions around. >>>> >>>> Respect the issue about the street names if you follow wiki indications >>>> for multilingual names [1] you could read for Welsh that "It is better to >>>> use *name:en* for English names and *name:cy* for the Welsh name. In >>>> the *name* field, a neutral or a bilingual version can be entered." >>>> [2]. So it's time to proceed in the correct mode. >>>> >>>> You can see an example of street sing here: http://imgur.com/VkxGasm >>>> >>>> I guess we should follow the neutral bilingual approach for that rather >>>> than to use only Welsh (which in top) or English name. >>>> >>>> In Spain we have same regions with this issue and we are use to manage. >>>> >>>> Telegram is like WhatsApp, a Instant Messenger platform, initially >>>> focus in mobile [3] and we use in Spain to re-emplace IRC [4] despite we >>>> connected both services through Riot.im [4] >>>> >>>> By the way, I'm one of the administrator of the Non-official, >>>> unauthorized OpenStreetMap supergroup on Telegram: @openstreetmaporg [5] >>>> >>>> We keep in contact >>>> >>>> Cheers >>>> >>>> Miguel >>>> >>>> [1] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Multilingual_names >>>> [2] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Multilingual_names#Wales >>>> [3] https://telegram.org/ >>>> [4] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/List_of_OSM_centric_Teleg >>>> ram_accounts >>>> [5] https://telegram.me/OpenStreetMapOrg >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> *Miguel Sevilla-Callejo* >>>> Doctor en Geografía >>>> >>>> On 27 July 2017 at 13:25, Philip Barnes <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Hi Miguel, welcome to Wales or should I say Croisi y Cymru. >>>>> >>>>> I am based in the Marches on the border so my mapping is regularly >>>>> both sides of the border. I do keep an eye on mid Wales through whodidit >>>>> as >>>>> we are very sparse on mappers in that area. >>>>> >>>>> > >>>>> >I'm looking for other contributors in Wales, Ceredigion or even within >>>>> >Aberystwyth to coordinate with them to star editions here. >>>>> > >>>>> >For instance, I found that all street names should be tagged in Welsh >>>>> >and >>>>> >English in the name=* as you can see in the street signals or as I >>>>> >found it >>>>> >must be in the OSM wiki [3] >>>>> >>>>> I would disagree with that, I prefer to map the top name in name and >>>>> then use name:cy and name:en tags. In my experience that is the norm. >>>>> Experience tells me that is far easier if the name contains a single >>>>> language. In Ceredigion I would expect that to be usually Cymraig. >>>>> > >>>>> >Moreover, I'm taking some street level photos to upload to Mapillary >>>>> >[3] >>>>> >and adding some notes [4] for future contributions. >>>>> > >>>>> >All feedback is welcome, I'm on Telegram too (same user as OSM) so you >>>>> >can >>>>> >contact to me there too. >>>>> >>>>> I am not sure what telegram is, the UK community hang out on IRC in >>>>> #talk-gb, you are welcome to join us. >>>>> > >>>>> >Cheers & happy mapping >>>>> >>>>> Have fun, and certainly visit New Quay (Under Milk Wood), while you >>>>> are in Ceredigion. >>>>> >>>>> Phil. (trigpoint) >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Talk-GB mailing list >>>>> [email protected] >>>>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Talk-GB mailing list >>>> [email protected] >>>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb >>>> >>>> >>> >> >
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