On 11 Jun 2010, at 09:44, Richard Mann wrote: > Sometimes there are obscure codes on bus stops (eg in Oxford), so that > humans can text them to a Real Time Passenger Info service (called > OxonTime here). Eg the ref tag on this node: > > http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/node/533877725 > > For which you can get a departures list: > > http://www.oxontime.com/pip/stop_simulator.asp?naptan=69345648 > > > I make that three different stop ids, plus some other stuff that could > probably be combined to make one. If you haven't got unique ids yet, > then it's quite likely that someone will introduce them soon. You > know, you wait ages for a unique id then three come along at once...
It is not easy to bring 140 transport authorities and probably over 1000 independent transport operators (many of which are very small) into a single naming and identification system, especially when prior to 1997 the public transport sector had had precious little investment. However.... every public transport access point (bus stop, railway station, airport gate) now has a unique AtcoCode, for the above stop it is '34000199404'. (11 digits) (ATCO stands for 'Association of Transport Co-ordinating Officers) Every bus stop in the UK also has a unique shorter code called a 'NaPTAN Code'. For each the above stop it is 'oxfgjmgt' (8 characters), however when one types that code on a mobile phone one uses the numbers '69345648' which is the numeric form of the NaPTAN Code used by oxontimes above. Needless to say OSM has its own node-id for the feature but the feature includes the ATCO Code and the alphabetical form of the Naptan Code from which the numeric form can be calculated. More about naptan codes here http://www.dft.gov.uk/naptan/smsPrefixes.htm Regards, Peter > > Richard > > > On Fri, Jun 11, 2010 at 3:48 AM, Peter Miller <[email protected] > > wrote: >> >> On 11 Jun 2010, at 01:49, john whelan wrote: >> >> Ottawa is different. The passengers complain if the bus is one >> minute early >> or five minutes late. Quite unlike London in the UK where I used >> to live. >> I think it stems from the minus 30c in winter time, with wind chill >> it can >> be even colder, the passengers typically turn up about two minutes >> before >> the bus. >> >> Thanks for your thoughts. >> >> Cheerio John >> >> On 10 June 2010 20:25, Roland Olbricht <[email protected]> >> wrote: >>> >>>>> You may want to follow >>>>> British/German standard. There is a tag that identifies stops >>>>> uniquely, >>>>> sorry can't recall at the moment. The last time I saw it was >>>>> Siegburg/Bonn train station. >> >> >>> >>> Do you mean the "ref" tag as on node 160621? I'd strongly advice >>> not to >>> follow >>> that way. The "ref" has also been used to list the lines stopping >>> there >>> and >>> should not be used for something else. >>> >>> I've never seen any item that identifies bus stops uniquely in >>> Germany or >>> Britain and is visible to the ordinary passenger. It is also not >>> needed - >>> all >>> bus stops with the same name in the same town are usually very close >>> together >>> (just stops for different directions). But being unique would be >>> never >>> stated >>> as a formal constraint. Buses sometimes stop at two nearby stops >>> with the >>> same >>> name. Thus there is nothing comparable to the stop_code here in >>> Germany. >> >> In the UK stops on either side of the road typically have the same >> 'name', a >> different indicator sometimes imported into OSM as a 'local_ref' (or >> naptan:indicator). >> In London and some other places the 'indicator' is often a single >> letter (or >> pair of letters) which is used on local maps and at the top of the >> pole and >> is unique locally Notice the 'D' indicator on top of this bus stop: >> http://www.flickr.com/photos/route79/2937392/ >> Here is a node in OSM which a 'Local_ref' code ('K' in this case) >> http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/node/469771254 >> And here is the same stop on an official TfL map used in bus >> shelters in the >> area. >> http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/gettingaround/maps/buses/pdf/londonbridge-2163.pdf >> This stop is also in a relation with the stop across the road: >> http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/relation/203739 >> But stops can be part of larger relations for a transport >> interchange, in >> this case a railway station (although not all elements associated >> with the >> station are included in this example yet) including platforms, >> other bus >> stops etc. >> http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/relation/205097 >> Every UK bus stops also has a unique 'Naptan:AtcoCode' which is >> used by >> information systems but not by humans. >> Here are some pages about the UK dataset and the import >> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/NaPTAN >> For comparison, here is a typical German stop >> http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/node/638614538 >> In the UK we imported all the relevant data into a naptan: >> namespace and >> then copied elements with OSM tags into the main OSM space. This >> could be a >> good way of working in other countries. >> Finally here is a proposal for tagging some of the more complex >> aspects: >> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Stop_Area >> >> Regards, >> >> Peter Miller >> ITO World >> www.itoworld.com >> >>> >>> John, I would advice you to just set name to the stop_code if this >>> is the >>> thing displayed on the bus stops. It is very different from the >>> northern >>> European system. But passenger (or traveller) information is the >>> primary >>> goal >>> of the OSM data. Thus a useful information in the tag that is >>> expected to >>> be >>> crucial ("name") is probably the best solution for Ottawa. >> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >>> Cheers, >>> >>> Roland >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Talk-transit mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-transit >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Talk-transit mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-transit >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Talk-transit mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-transit >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Talk-transit mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-transit _______________________________________________ Talk-transit mailing list [email protected] http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-transit
