Could you provide a link to a particular location you are thinking of? When I map farms in Papua, Indonesia, usually there is a central residential compound with a few small houses and farm buildings, and usually some shade and fruit trees right between the houses. I map that residential area as landuse=residential. Sometimes there is a yard for raising chickens and pigs or a large pig stye and dirt area nearby; that can be mapped as landuse=farmyard. Then if there are vegetables gardens I map those as landuse=farmland. Any fields planted with bananas or (fruit) palms are landuse=orchard. Fallow fields are usually landuse=meadow if they are covered in grass, though after a few years they turn back into natural=scrub and eventually natural=wood - the locals use a very long rotation period.
So, each area is mapped with what it is used for. This means that the different landuse areas can be pretty small. E.g.: https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=17/-4.08508/138.73589 In the parts of Europe I've seen even smaller patches of different areas: https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=17/38.55129/-28.66001 That looks like a lot of work! It's totally okay to start by just mapping large areas imprecisely, and then later we can get it down to very precise mapping of thin strips of trees and scrub between fields: https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/628402941 - if we want to.... Joseph On Thu, May 28, 2020 at 6:48 PM stevea <stevea...@softworkers.com> wrote: > On May 28, 2020, at 5:12 PM, Joseph Eisenberg <joseph.eisenb...@gmail.com> > wrote: > > > beekeeping, wild mushroom harvesting, herb-crafting for essential oils > > > > Those are all forest products, not so much farm products (though honey > can come from any type of vegetation): > > So, do I use landuse=forest or the current landuse=farmland? What I hear > is that I must choose between landuse=forest and landuse=residential. I > describe "live on family farms in the forest which are partially though not > necessarily rather forested areas which give rise to many kinds of > agricultural production, right now, today, flexibly, as we speak." They > support families in residential areas simultaneously to whatever seemingly > singular value I must compress into. They flexible support vineyards, > orchards and greenhouse_horticulture. But, sir, who are you to ask where > the edge of their residential aspect exists? I say and property owners say > (apparently, some renderer authors disagree, and that's certainly OK, I'm > merely trying to understand it) expound 'the residential semantic' over the > entire domain. Anything else, to what we might loosely agree as Americans > is a "5th amendment taking of property rights by the government." If that > sounds political, I guess that's where I say, "OK, diverges from Carto." > Again, that's OK. This is about me, Steve, understanding it. > > There is such a thing as "family owned 'farm' in the forest which does and > might give rise to forest products and has some trees where people live in > small family clusters in residential buildings." If I need to fit all that > into a single landuse tag I'd like you to tell me what it is and how it > renders. Families and agriculture and human life here on Earth is so much > more complicated than that. Thank you. > > > "Forest products include materials derived from a forest for commercial > and personal use such as lumber, paper, and firewood as well as “special > forest products” such as medicinal herbs, fungi, edible fruits and nuts, > and other natural products." > > > > So, land covered with trees which is used to produce mushrooms, > truffles, herbs, essential oils, honey, cork, bark, firewood, etc - that's > forest or woodland, not landuse=farmland. > > OK, but people live here, too. Which landuse value (with farmland out of > the way), forest or residential? I shouldn't have to choose. > > > > > Yes, the same area may be tree covered and residential at the same > time. > > Of course, there are many of these. How do we tag them? > > > > Yet, Mateusz, you don't say exactly how to tag these. > > > > You can just overlap them. Don't worry too much about how OpenStreetMap > carto renders it, as long as they way you map it makes sense and matches > reality. Perhaps we can fix the rendering if the current results are > causing confusion, so that the trees only show when the green background > shows. > > Examples of "how these are properly overlap" are appreciated. > > Changing how these layers render now would even-more-confuse. Let's stick > to how they do now. > > > > a 10 hectare / 25 acre parcel which is 98% trees and 2% house, garage, > a small clearing > > > > Yeah, I would only map the cleared area as landuse=residential in that > case, since the rest of the land is being used to grow trees, not for > residential purposes. While the current owner may not plan to cut firewood > or timber, the next owner might in another 20 or 30 years. Forestry is a > long-term thing. > > Property ownership is a "as long as it exists, and it does, a lot" thing, > too. It really does feel like something is attempted to be taken away from > us as we are told "don't call that area residential" (but it is, as I could > choose to build a deck and a bbq anywhere there, for instance) feels > distinctly like something is being taken away from me. You get that, right? > > > > > 0% row crops, but allows (and actually develops) into orchards, > vineyards, greenhouse_horticulture. > > > > It does not matter what is allowed by the local zoning laws. Don't map > zoning in OpenStreetMap, map what is actually there in reality. So, if they > plant a vineyard, map that as landuse=vineyard. But don't map > landuse=vineyard just because it's allowed to plant a vineyard someday. > > What I hear is "Carto does not care" here. Locals around here who keep > bees and decide where the next greenhouse or orchard will sprout this year > would say "oh, we very much care." > > Let's do our best to simply say where the Carto boundary / SteveA's > understanding this is. I'm trying to understand this, but it rather > clashes with my sense of what is meant by landuse=residential. As a > property owner, "the whole polygon" is a "don't you dare try to shrink this > down" sort of thing which I strongly have a sense to protect and defend. > Telling me to "drop it down to the area of your family and your garage and > the grassland" seems artificial and constricting. All those hectares are > mine; I am the resident. This is what we mean by residential. See, it's > broad, vague and at times confusing. Maybe that's a sense of property > ownership clashing with how Carto attempts to model, it's possible. I > simply want to understand the decisions you make. > > Steve
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