A couple of points following on to 01bigtenor's reply: According to Wikipedia: "Devuan is a fork of the Debian Linux distribution that uses sysvinit, runit or OpenRC instead of systemd. Devuan aims to avoid 'lock-in' by projects like systemd and aims to maintain compatibility with other init systems to avoid detaching Linux from other Unix systems." When systemd was initially a horrible mess, I was very much in favour of this. But for the last several years systemd has been rock-steady, and once you wrap your head around the basics, it's a LOT easier to use than maintaining those damn /etc/rc.N/ folders. At least that's been my experience.
As for Debian stable vs. testing: 20 years ago Debian testing was great ... about a decade ago I found it to be noticeably less stable, and the constant volume of updates got on my nerves. So I switched to stable. Even if the stability of testing has improved, I don't want to put up with the updates. If I need something newer, I can "pin" a package, getting it either from testing or backports. This is admittedly a PITA to set up, and I hardly ever use it because of that ... but I _have_ used it, and it proved reasonably reliable in practice. Although getting your head around pinning weights is ... nasty. On Tue, 4 Jul 2023 at 08:24, o1bigtenor via talk <[email protected]> wrote: > > On Tue, Jun 27, 2023 at 10:22 AM D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk > <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > This Red Hat change concerns me. > >snip > > > > > It feels as if RH steers the future of Linux by making so many > > contributions. > > > > - Ubuntu LTS + fresh Ubuntu has been pretty good. I've had more > > problems with package updates on Ubuntu than of Fedora, but it has > > been pretty good. Distro version upgrades have been good but not > > perfect in my modest experience. > > > > Canonical has repeatedly acted in ways that offend or scare me. So > > Ubuntu, although easy, feels like a potential trap. > > Found this to be true - - - - spent a lot of time a number of years ago > looking into LXD - - - the snap environment is one that NEVER will > be seen here again if I can help it. > > Canonical is, imo, desperately looking for ways to monetize their > brand - - - - - someone's just have to have more $$$$$$$$$. > > > > - debian Stable + Testing + Unstable. I don't have much experience > > with debian. I fear that the lack of full-time paid engineers might > > reduce the safety relative to RH (that could easily just be FUD). > > debian's goals are good by me. > > > > So: I'm thinking of switching to debian. > > I was with Debian for over 10 years - - - have now switched to > Devuan - - - thereby getting rid of another item of 'control'. > > > > I'd like to learn from others. How do you choose to solve these > > problems? Maybe some of them are non-problems. > > The problem is that the small encroachments don't tend to isolate > - - they tend to grow - - - somewhat like microbes! (With similar results > in my experience!). > > > > ================ > > > > Giles has a problem with needing a stable distro with a more recent > > FireFox. I suggested, against my preferences, that this might be a > > perfect use for Snaps/Flatpacks. > > Snaps are a system controlling adventure - - - be aware of this BEFORE > starting down that road. Haven't used flatpacks. > > I find that browsers are needing updates almost on a daily basis. > Am wondering if there is a way of reducing the 'encroachment' of > the nefarious bits of cruft adhering to all browsers (at least as far > as I see). > > > > I wonder if I should be using a stable distro everywhere but with > > containerized upgraded packages where they matter. I yet don't think > > so. > > > > The rest of my family uses Fedora on their workstations. But they > > hate applying updates (even when I do the work). They are way behind > > most of the time. Maybe a stable distro + a fresh FireFox would be > > best for them too. > > I've already been informed that if I weren't doing updates windows would be > applied post haste - - - something about the devil they know!!!! (Work systems > are all M$ Win!) > > > > How many other packages would I need to have fresher-than-stable? > > > > - support for newer hardware > > > > - compilers etc. > > > > - more pain-points would be discovered. > > > > ================ > > > > A fundamental problem is that feature changes and bug fixes are > > usually mingled in upstream. In some cases, it is a false > > distinction. Few developers want to maintain a bunch of old releases. > > It is very hard for a distro to correctly separate these two, and yet > > that is required to maintain a stable distro. > > I tend to run in debian's equivalent of 'testing'. Found over the last more > than 10 years that that was a reasonable compromise to stability and > currentness. > > HTH > --- > Post to this mailing list [email protected] > Unsubscribe from this mailing list https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk -- Giles https://www.gilesorr.com/ [email protected] --- Post to this mailing list [email protected] Unsubscribe from this mailing list https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
