So, everyone knows what I think of this thread and the one preceding it regarding testing and such. I won't go there.
However, now that some specs have been laid as to what some employers want and some ideas for the implementation, I challenge everyone (or anyone interested) to put some numbers and policy ideas behind it. 1. Potential employers have spec'ed out what they want (list below, for example) and how to prove it (test, jury system). Well, how much are you willing to pay? Candidates, how much do you need to do this? Is it worth it? IMO, the "jury aspect" easily makes this $150K+perks, benefits as you are greatly narrowing the available talent pool 2. How does a developer who goes through this process have their investment of time and money protected? So, I just spent 5k on the jury process and passed. Are companies allowed to hire non-certified developers? If so, then what is the value of my investment? If they are not, sounds like a union to me. And if it is a union, don't you think that it would just force more work overseas as unlike contractors and electricians, our work is not bound geographically? Do we then need state and national regulation to prevent this? People seem really passionate about this idea - so lets flesh it out and see if it really works, then. Finally, to the employers, if you wouldn't mind, I would be interested in hearing about some of the horror stories that have driven you to this. I want to hear the scenarios that you feel this testing and policy (my word, not yours) fixes. For example, did you have someone on staff that during a "crunch time" didn't know how to use cURL while a big client was on the phone? That kind of thing. Tom http://www.liphp.org On Thu, Apr 24, 2008 at 2:35 AM, Peter Sawczynec <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Now this roll up (redisplayed below) from Time Lieberman is excellent > and elegantly captures what a real PHP+ programmer would be. And in > reality and based on my own experience too, this skill set is exactly > what is most often needed and even silently tacitly expected when you > step into an advanced PHP programmer job OR you will likely need all > this knowledge if you are independently consulting and taking on entire > web site design, development and maintenance. > > --------------- START: T. Lieberman advanced PHP+ rollup ------------ > > > I want someone who can (among other things): > > - Administer UNIX-like servers. Including some basic understanding of > > package management, and also (especially?) compiling from source. > - Can at least make their way around a windows/IIS type system. > - Understands version control systems (for me, CVS + SVN, but you'd > probably need to understand VSS in the cert exam). > - Knows how to program. Understands how to optimize (and when). > Understands recursion. > - Has a good knowledge of object-oriented things. > - Knows their way around major design patterns (MVC, Singletons, > Factories, and so on) > - Understands SQL -- you might be a PHP-expert, but if you're writing > bad SQL your app will suck (unless it eschews SQL entirely -- how often > does that happen). > - Understands XML parsers. > - Understands some common XML-based standards (SOAP, RSS) > - Knows how to write a cron job that will actually work. > - Can manually interact with an SMTP server (via telnet) > > --------------- END: T. Lieberman advanced PHP+ rollup ------------ > > I would suggest to any average PHP programmer who is looking for a hot > list of "what do I need to know" to really get ahead. Then you can use > the above list almost like bible, the above knowledge set (with or > without a cert to test you) is a very good full tool kit of skills that > will make you a very valuable and versatile member/manager on most any > PHP job -- full time/part time/freelance. > > My list below, I would suggest then, is very good knowledge set for a > beginner/intermediate level. > > > --------------- START: P. Sawczynec beginner/intermediate PHP+ rollup > ------------ > > -- State/cookies/sessions > -- Database related > -- Email > -- Forms > -- File handling and uploads > -- Internet/SOAP/CURL > > Educate yourself roughly committing time to concepts in these > percentages shown below: > > > 5 % -- Package(s) and install > 5 % -- PHP .ini > 15 % -- Security > 20 % -- Functions > 25 % -- Classes > 5 % -- Error Handling > 5 % -- RegExp > 10 % -- PEAR/PECL > 5 % -- Version Control > > --------------- END: P. Sawczynec beginner/intermediate PHP+ rollup > ------------ > > Well, well something quite good has already come of this thread. > > Peter > > _______________________________________________ New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online http://www.nyphpcon.com Show Your Participation in New York PHP http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
