There's a very big difference between not trashing Microsoft, and spouting there nonsensical party line.
On Wednesday, August 3, 2016, Jim via Talk <talk@lists.window-eyes.com> wrote: > That's very tru! I think we should all just set back and wait and see what > happens. Personally I would like to see a product that functions well even > if it takes more time to produce it. There is no real reason for them to > release a product that is going to have to be continually updated an > repaired for weeks and or months. I have gotten edge to work to some > degree and what I have saw I have liked. Just be patient for a while > longer and we might all be surprised! P.S. If I am not correct please > remember that I didn't make any promises<SMILE!>. Catch Ya All Later! de > > <KF8LT><Jim>. > > > On 02-Aug-16 20:54, Marc Solomon via Talk wrote: > >> Fact 6, Rome was not built in a day. Does that mean Rome doesn't exist >> today? In other words, accessibility is not trivial to implement. In fact, >> it is downright hard to do and requires the efforts of brilliant and >> passionate engineers. I sure wish you could appreciate that fact if no >> other. Recognizing this truth might encourage you to stop attacking the >> people that are trying to help. In closing, can't we all just get along? >> >> Sent with AquaMail for Android >> http://www.aqua-mail.com >> >> On August 2, 2016 7:53:00 PM Kevin Barry <krba...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> fact number five, the edge browser is not accessible to screen readers. >> Making your fax immaterial >> >> On Wednesday, August 3, 2016, Marc Solomon via Talk < >> talk@lists.window-eyes.com<mailto:talk@lists.window-eyes.com>> wrote: >> Hi Vaughn, >> Regretfully, I don't have any specifics to share regarding how close >> Window-Eyes is to adding official support for Edge. But, the advancements >> we are seeing in Edge seem like a good indicator that 3rd party screen >> reader support is not too far off in the distance. >> Best, >> Marc >> >> Sent with AquaMail for Android >> http://www.aqua-mail.com >> >> >> On August 2, 2016 7:23:53 PM Vaughan Dodd >> <vaughan.dodd...@msd.govt.nz<javascript:;>> >> wrote: >> >> Hi Marc. >>> >>> I'm perhaps tempting fate - are you signaling that in fact, Window-eyes >>> is close to having the interface we need? >>> >>> I can check for myself as to the real user's experience of course when >>> the anniversary of Windows 10 gets to a machine near me. >>> >>> Vaughan. >>> >>> >>> Understand if non-disclosure still applies. >>> >>> Vaughan. >>> >>> >>> >>> Please telephone the Regional Disability and Health Team prior to >>> emailing or faxing any new referrals. >>> >>> Vaughan Dodd, Regional Disability Advisor. >>> >>> Desk2desk: 97187. >>> Email: vaughan.dodd...@msd.govt.nz<javascript:;>. >>> For referrals: email fax_gnlis001_health_disabil...@msd.govt.nz >>> <javascript:;>. >>> >>> Our up-to-date desk file is located at: >>> >>> http://doogle.ssi.govt.nz/resources/publications/reports-research/regional/auckland/auckland-health-disability-resources.html >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+vaughan.dodd001<javascript:;>= >>> msd.govt...@lists.window-eyes.com<javascript:;>] On Behalf Of Marc >>> Solomon via Talk >>> Sent: Wednesday, 3 August 2016 11:07 a.m. >>> To: Kevin Barry >>> Cc: Window-Eyes Discussion List >>> Subject: RE: update on Microsoft Edge (my final response on this thread, >>> I promise <grin>) >>> >>> Fact number 1: Microsoft Edge used to accessibly support 0 percent of >>> HTML5 features. >>> Fact number 2: In less than 12 months, Microsoft Edge now accessibly >>> supports 100 percent of HTML5 features. >>> Fact number 3: Microsoft Edge now accessibly supports more HTML5 >>> features than any other major browser. >>> Fact number 4: Web browsers accessibly supporting HTML5 features will >>> make the web more usable for people who use assistive technology including >>> screen reader users >>> Source: www.html5accessibility.com<http://www.html5accessibility.com>< >>> http://www.html5accessibility.com> (curated by The Paciello Group, a >>> globally recognized leader in digital accessibility) Explanation of terms – >>> HTML5 features “accessibly supported” by a web browser includes if they are >>> keyboard accessible, mapped to the platform accessibility APIs, and if any >>> accessibility related features are supported. An accessibly supported >>> feature means it is usable by people who rely on assistive technology, >>> without developers having to supplement with ARIA or other additional >>> workarounds. >>> >>> From: Kevin Barry [mailto:krba...@gmail.com<javascript:;>] >>> Sent: Tuesday, August 2, 2016 6:23 PM >>> To: Marc Solomon <msolo...@aisquared.com<javascript:;>> >>> Cc: Rick Thomas <ofbgm...@mi.rr.com<javascript:;>>; Window-Eyes >>> Discussion List <talk@lists.window-eyes.com<javascript:;>>; Portia >>> Scott <porti...@sbcglobal.net<javascript:;>> >>> Subject: Re: update on Microsoft Edge >>> >>> As soon as Microsoft make some progress, please share it with us. In the >>> meantime, please stop apologizing for their inexcusable choices. >>> >>> On Wednesday, August 3, 2016, Marc Solomon <msolo...@aisquared.com >>> <javascript:;><mailto:msolo...@aisquared.com<javascript:;>>> wrote: >>> Kevin, >>> You are entitled to your opinion. As an advocate for the screen reader >>> and accessibility communities, I believe that constructive dialogue, >>> eduction, and cooperation is a formula for positive change. I will continue >>> to share facts about the progress being made by Microsoft in the realm of >>> accessibility. And, I sincerely hope that in the near future users of >>> screen readers will have access to another web browser under Windows. >>> Marc >>> >>> Sent with AquaMail for Android >>> http://www.aqua-mail.com >>> >>> On August 2, 2016 5:31:15 PM Kevin Barry >>> <krba...@gmail.com<javascript:;><javascript:;>> >>> wrote: >>> >>> Simply put, I believe edge shall never be accessible. Microsoft has >>> decided to screw screen reader users over and that is that. To add insult >>> to injury, we must evidently put up with people who should know better >>> making apologies for microsoft and trying to explain why black is white. >>> >>> On Wednesday, August 3, 2016, Marc Solomon <msolo...@aisquared.com >>> <javascript:;><javascript:;><mailto:msolo...@aisquared.com<javascript:;><javascript:;>>> >>> wrote: >>> Well said Rick! To reiterate an important point in my previous post, end >>> to end accessibility is a team effort. Microsoft only has control over the >>> OS and browser. The screen reader has to be updated to support the >>> accessibility architecture of the OS and browser. VFO is actively working >>> on making this happen. >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+msolomon >>> <javascript:;><javascript:;><javascript:;>= >>> aisquared....@lists.window-eyes.com<javascript:;><javascript:;><javascript:;>] >>> On Behalf Of Rick Thomas via Talk >>> Sent: Tuesday, August 2, 2016 4:51 PM >>> To: 'Kevin Barry' >>> <krba...@gmail.com<javascript:;><javascript:;><javascript:;>>; >>> 'Window-Eyes Discussion List' >>> <talk@lists.window-eyes.com<javascript:;><javascript:;><javascript:;>>; >>> 'Portia Scott' <porti...@sbcglobal.net >>> <javascript:;><javascript:;><javascript:;>> >>> Subject: RE: update on Microsoft Edge >>> >>> If the Accessibility Tree reflects the browser and the page contents it >>> is then up to the screen reader to use the tree properly and produce the >>> audio outputs accordingly. >>> Thus if the browser handles the new objects and the tree reflects the >>> browser contents it is up to the screen reader to produce quality output. >>> Rick USA >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+ofbgmail >>> <javascript:;><javascript:;><javascript:;>= >>> mi.rr....@lists.window-eyes.com<javascript:;><javascript:;><javascript:;>] >>> On Behalf Of Kevin Barry via Talk >>> Sent: Tuesday, August 2, 2016 4:37 PM >>> To: Portia Scott >>> <porti...@sbcglobal.net<javascript:;><javascript:;><javascript:;>>; >>> Window-Eyes Discussion List <talk@lists.window-eyes.com >>> <javascript:;><javascript:;><javascript:;>> >>> Subject: Re: update on Microsoft Edge >>> >>> So, he edge browser is accessible for HTML5, but not accessible for >>> screen readers. This does not appear to demonstrate Microsoft's commitment >>> to anything. Unless you count wishing to appear committed. If we cannot use >>> the browser, all else is irrelevant. >>> >>> On Wednesday, August 3, 2016, Portia Scott via Talk < >>> talk@lists.window-eyes.com<javascript:;><javascript:;><javascript:;>> >>> wrote: >>> >>> I definitely find this pretty interesting. Someone on Twitter was >>>> saying that edge is actually accessible. Although, you have to tab a >>>> lot. >>>> >>>> I haven't really tested this, and I am not on my Windows machine at >>>> the moment. But I thought I would mention this to the list. >>>> >>>> Portia. >>>> >>>>> On Aug 2, 2016, at 11:22 AM, Marc Solomon via Talk < >>>>> >>>> talk@lists.window-eyes.com<javascript:;><javascript:;><javascript:;> >>>> <javascript:;>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Many of you on the list have voiced concerns about the lack of >>>>> >>>> accessibility and screen reader compatibility in Microsoft Edge (the >>>> new web browser in Windows 10). Yes, Microsoft dropped the ball by >>>> releasing a non-accessible solution when Windows 10 first shipped. >>>> There is nothing we can do to change that. But, I wanted to share some >>>> information that was just released that helps demonstrate Microsoft's >>>> commitment to accessibility and the improvements that have been made to >>>> Edge. >>>> >>>>> First, a little background. HTML5 is the latest version of the >>>>> markup >>>>> >>>> language used to write web pages. This new specification includes many >>>> new elements that have potential to make web pages more accessible and >>>> >>> operable >>> >>>> from the keyboard. In order for this all to work, both the web browser >>>> and assistive technology have to implement support for the HTML5 >>>> >>> specification. >>> >>>> And, the web page developer has to use the HTML5 markup correctly when >>>> authoring the page. There are more technical complexities involved for >>>> creating an accessible experience, but this is a good place to start. >>>> >>>>> Here is an example of how a new HTML5 element could improve >>>>> >>>> accessibility. A web page author can use the new <main> element to >>>> indicate the main content on a web page. The web browser can map the >>>> >>> <main> >>> >>>> element to a landmark element in the accessibility API (application >>>> programming interface). This API can then communicate to a screen >>>> reader that there is a main content landmark available on the page. >>>> The screen reader can provide the user with a hotkey to navigate to >>>> the main content landmark. As you can see, a carefully orchestrated >>>> effort must take place in order for accessibility to happen. Okay, >>>> that is the end of the >>>> >>> lecture. >>> >>>> Thanks for staying awake. >>>> >>>>> The website www.html5accessibility<http://www.html5accessibility> >>>>> was >>>>> >>>> created to document the current level of HTML5 accessibility support >>>> in each of the major browsers (Chrome, Edge, Firefox, Internet >>>> Explorer and Safari). The website first lists each browser and the >>>> percentage of HTML5 elements that are accessibly supported. Then, >>>> there are tables showing >>>> >>> each >>> >>>> HTML5 element's current support in the major browsers. This website is >>>> updated frequently. At the beginning of this year, Edge had a score of >>>> 0%. >>>> As of today, it now has a score of 100%. And, it is the only major >>>> browser that now accessibly supports all HTML5 features. Edge has >>>> leapfrogged all of the other browsers, even the mighty Firefox which >>>> had been at the top >>>> >>> of >>> >>>> the list for quite some time. This robust HTML5 support in Edge is a >>>> true testament to Microsoft's commitment to accessibility. And, I for >>>> one give them kudos for this outstanding accomplishment. Now, back to >>>> your regular programming. >>>> >>>>> Best, >>>>> Marc >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of >>>>> the >>>>> >>>> author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. >>>> >>>>> For membership options, visit >>>>> >>>> >>> http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/portia89%40sbc >>> global.net<http://global.net> >>> >>>> . >>>> >>>>> For subscription options, visit >>>>> >>>> http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com >>>> >>>>> List archives can be found at >>>>> >>>> http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the >>>> author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. >>>> >>>> For membership options, visit >>>> >>>> >>> http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/krbarry%40gmai >>> l.com<http://l.com> >>> >>>> . >>>> For subscription options, visit >>>> http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com >>>> List archives can be found at >>>> http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com >>>> >>>> >>> -- >>> Sent from Kevin's iPhone. >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the >>> author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. >>> >>> For membership options, visit >>> >>> http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/ofbgmail%40mi >>> . >>> rr.com<http://rr.com>. >>> For subscription options, visit >>> http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com >>> List archives can be found at >>> http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the >>> author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. >>> >>> For membership options, visit >>> http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/msolomon%40aisquared.com >>> . >>> For subscription options, visit >>> http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com >>> List archives can be found at >>> http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Sent from Kevin's iPhone. >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Sent from Kevin's iPhone. >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the >>> author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. >>> >>> For membership options, visit >>> http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/vaughan.dodd001%40msd.govt.nz >>> . >>> For subscription options, visit >>> http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com >>> List archives can be found at >>> http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com >>> >>> ------------------------------- >>> This email and any attachments may contain information that is >>> confidential and subject to legal privilege. If you are not the intended >>> recipient, any use, dissemination, distribution or duplication of this >>> email and attachments is prohibited. If you have received this email in >>> error please notify the author immediately and erase all copies of the >>> email and attachments. The Ministry of Social Development accepts no >>> responsibility for changes made to this message or attachments after >>> transmission from the Ministry. >>> >>> ------------------------------- >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >> Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the >> author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. >> >> For membership options, visit >> http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/krbarry%40gmail.com >> . >> For subscription options, visit >> http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com >> List archives can be found at >> http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com >> >> >> -- >> Sent from Kevin's iPhone. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the >> author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. >> >> For membership options, visit >> http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/wohlggie%40gmail.com >> . >> For subscription options, visit >> http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com >> List archives can be found at >> http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the > author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. > > For membership options, visit > http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/krbarry%40gmail.com > . > For subscription options, visit > http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com > List archives can be found at > http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com > -- Sent from Kevin's iPhone. _______________________________________________ Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. For membership options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/archive%40mail-archive.com. For subscription options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com List archives can be found at http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com
