Think I messed up one of the links. Here it is: https://java.com/en/download/help/manual_regedit.xml
David On 3/4/2020 5:12 PM, David via Talk wrote: > Sleeping dogs, disturbing cats, and the misbehaving mouse. Peter, you > sure have got the whole zoo - right there on your desk. If now you use > DuckDuckGo as your search engine, you would just about be there. Smiles. > > I am not going to lengthen anything. Just thought to leave you a couple > of tips, that you may want to consider. > > Went to my search engine, and typed the term: > Uninstalling Java. > > It resulted in a list of sites that gave a few suggestions. Wanted to > share with you a couple of addresses, that might point you in further > direction. But first of all, did you know the manufacturer of Java had > their own removal tool? > You will find it here: > https://javadl-esd-secure.oracle.com/update/jut/JavaUninstallTool.exe > > The above link should start the download immediately. You will get an > .EXE file, which you can run directly. No need for any pre-installation. > It supposedly will remove all traces of Java, found on your system. And > since it is a stand-alone software, it might just be a bit more > intensive than the Windows installer itself. I do not have Java on my > system, so running the tool, I was only able to get to the first screen, > which informed me of the lack of Java on my computer. At least that far, > WinEyes had no trouble in reading the screen. Be aware, the mouse did > not work on the screen, so you will likely have to use your Tab, Enter > and Spacebar. But ain't that the way we like it? > > As an alternative, I want to point you to CCleaner. If you start that > program, and on the main screen go to Tools, then hit Enter. Further > browse the screen for the Uninstaller, and Click Enter. You now will be > taken to CCleaners Software Remover, which might be able to remove > things that Windows will not handle on its own. > > A couple of the sites I checked, adviced using a third-party remover, > like Revo. Not sure. Seem to remember someone telling the newer versions > of Revo to have issues with screen readers, but that is all by memory, > so you might want to check that out with the community before attempting > to use it. If you can get it working, it might be far more agressive > than Windows Installer, and might be better at bypassing obstacles like > the ones you mentioned. Further I learnt from my search, that sometimes > a broken installation or update can leave your Registry entries in a > non-working state. This could in turn block you from future updates, or > even the very removal of pieces of software. On the Java home page, you > find a couple of suggestions in such cases. One automated from > Microsoft, which seems to be rather high-tech. The other suggestion did > seem to be a bit more doable, but requires a number of manual steps. You > find it all here: > The techie one, from Microsoft: > https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/17588/windows-fix-problems-that-block-programs-being-installed-or-removed > , also read this: > https://www.guidingtech.com/20274/completely-remove-uninstall-java-windows-pc/ > , as well as this one, from Java themselves: > https://java.com/en/download/help/uninstall_java.xml > > Hope any of the listed info will prove helpful, and that you can get > Java off your computer. It might take a bit of time and energy, but once > your system is rid of that software package altogether, you may just > find your syste m less troublesome. Make sure the JavaBridge from > GWMicro will be removed as well. I do wonder if that used to be listed > in the Windows Uninstall list, if it ever is on your PC. > > You said you do not know how Java came to be on your computer first > hand. Certainly, it could have come buntled with other software that you > might have installed at a point. Or the Tech personel could have thought > either they or you needed the package for who knows what reason. But > just as likely, it might have come buntled with your computer, the day > you bought it. Specially so if you bought it brand new, from one of the > major brands. HP, for one, used to love speckling their systems with > loads of software that they found you would need. Starting your new > system, you would find it to be loaded down with resource hungry pieces > of software, that you never asked for, and never had any benefit from. > Notice that still certain models from major brands are advertised with > loads of such software pre-installed by default. Too bad, as it often > means for the user to have to uninstall a rather big chunk of his new > system, even before he can start enjoying his newcomer. Once the > computers are ripped for this kind of unwanted stuff, they might prove > to be some of the most reliable workhorses on the market, serving for > many years. > > Like I said, did not mean to keep a thread unnecessary alive. Just let > you know some of your options. Hope for your mouse to have learned its > lesson. > > On 3/4/2020 1:10 AM, peter Chin wrote: >> Hello David, >> >> Thanks for your swift reply. Yes, I knew about the security risk with >> having Java. I did not intentionally install Java. I think either >> Windows itself has a version of it or my computer technician could >> have installed it. I did try a few times to uninstall Java but got no >> where. As soon as I read your reply, I tried again but again got no >> where. In the Programs and Features section, I could find updates for >> Java but not Java itself. Messages I got when trying to uninstall >> these updates ran something like "the feature you are trying to use >> is on a network resource that is unavailable", or words to that effect. >> >> Any way, as I said in my previous message, my mouse seems to be >> behaving itself for the moment so I think I'll let sleeping dogs lie >> until the cat disturbs the mouse again. >> >> Thanks much for your help. >> >> -----Original Message----- From: David >> Sent: Monday, March 2, 2020 2:49 PM >> To: peter Chin ; Window-Eyes Discussion List >> Subject: Re: Solving Mouse Trap >> >> Peter, >> sometimes a bit of a challenge to know how much to tell, and what to >> leave out. One user is this much experienced, the next is all that much >> of a newbie, or too worried to go for anything new. Sorry if my advices >> tend to be too thorough. >> >> Sounds like your mouse does have ears, does it. Perhaps it has been >> reading about all the clean-up and reinstallation, and is afraid the >> next thing you are going to bring onto your system is the Cat. Please do >> make it aware, that the cable you are using for hooking up to the >> Internet, is named a CAT cable. Cat here telling the standard for how to >> connect the many wires inside the cable, in both ends. And, remind the >> mouse of your computer, that the CAT standard is up to version 6 now, >> though you might only be at version 5 yourself currently. See if any of >> that will make the mouse start to behave. Big smiles, and please excuse >> the jokes. >> >> Sure seems you have the habit of taking good measures of safety. That >> does root out a few possibilities. So let's see if we can get anything >> further. Maybe the following is old news to you, and in such a case, >> please disregard it. >> >> AVG. That one is not just inaccessible for screen readers, and has been >> for a long time. It even is almost impossible to get rid of, once it has >> entered your computer. I did spend a number of hours a couple of years >> ago, to get rid of that very software. It came bundled with something >> else, and had got installed without my knowing. Attempting to uninstall >> by means of normal Windows routines, only left me with some error >> messages, and a load of head-scratching. Going to Programs and Features >> in Windows, Right-clicking on the AVG entry, and then trying to run what >> AVG and Windows had conspired to name uninstallation, resulted in a >> window that the screen reader could not read. Searching the net, I found >> that AVG offers their taylored uninstallation software, which supposedly >> should remove the stuff from the computer. Downloading and running that >> uninstaller, again resulted in a screen that was non-usable for the >> screen reader. >> >> Attempting to use WinEyes, NVDA or Jaws, it was all to no avail. Two >> eyes would have known what to click on, and how to get the mouse there. >> But with the screen readers, it was close to impossible. And why Close? >> Well, because I found that one screen reader would read one part of the >> dialogs, another screen reader would pick up something else. By running >> Jaws and WinEyes simultaneously, and using their OCR features, I finally >> was able to operate the silly dialogs, and have the system rid itself of >> AVG. Jaws performed the better on the OCR job, but was unable to click >> any of the buttons. WinEyes did a poor job in the OCR, but got the mouse >> clicks working. A bunch of chattering from both screen readers. Wish >> they could have been set to speak in each their ear, it would have made >> the job a tiny bit easier. >> >> Did I say the system got rid of the AVG? In That would have been a great >> exergeration. I ran a clean-up, using a couple of cleaners. They >> reported having cleaned out so many files and entries. Checking my >> system, several traces were still left. Ended up having to manually >> going through my Registry, deleting each and every entry that would >> refer to anything that had to do with AVG and its manufacturer. A step >> that seemed to be well-known, when I checked the net. Users suggested >> this to be the way to go. OK, an anti-ware should not let itself be >> removed by chance, or by some intruders. Still, when you download and >> run the uninstaller provided by the manufacturer, directly from their >> homepage, you hope to get rid of their product altogether. And just to >> tell, AVG is not the only example of this. Had a struggle in getting >> another piece of anti-virus off my system many years back. Even plain >> normal software, sometimes can be quite sticky. >> Sum of it all? Don't rely on one screen reader, if you want to make >> certain of getting the job done. And make sure the technician will be >> aware that things are not necessarily removed from your computer, just >> because the stuff is not showing up on the taskbar, or reported as not >> running when you check the control panel. Maybe your tech personel >> simply is not aware this fact, and did leave something behind, or even >> replaced with something else that they thought you needed or even >> wanted. Maybe inform them that you do not and never want anything >> installed - temporarily or permanently - on your computer, which you did >> not explicitly agree on. Too many a software now aday, is not >> constructed with screen reader users in mind. Strangely enough, since >> the usage of screen readers have become far more widely known. Wish they >> had that as part of the educational program for the developer students, >> to always ensure screen reader accessibility. And it does not even take >> that much more time, if it is included from scratch. Anyway, have to >> face the real world. Smile. >> >> JAVA. OK. Why do you have Java on your computer? Sorry for asking. But >> Java is known to have security holes, and in general is somehow outdated >> as a platform. Unless certain stuff on your computer explicitly demands >> Java installed, I would strongly recommend getting rid of it right away. >> Even just leaving it on your computer, has been told to putting the >> system at risk. Now just to out-weed some mis-conception, let me remind >> you and the others who read this thread, that there does exist something >> on the net, named JavaScript. JavaScript is not Java, and basically has >> no further connection than the similarity in naming. If you ever came >> across a website telling that it used JavaScript, don't conclude you >> need Java installed on your computer. JavaScript runs in your browser, >> and runs perfectly without Java. >> >> I am aware that a few pieces of software might be constructed on the >> Java platform. If you are running such software, uninstalling Jaava will >> break your access. But in all other cases, get rid of the thing. You may >> never need it. And if you ever seem in need, do check to see if there >> does exist a Java-free alternative for the job you want done. For more >> info, try searching the net for something like: >> Java and Security, >> and see what your findings will be. >> >> Yes, Java does update itself, and used to do so rather frequently. It >> used to be non-accessible to screen readers, but GW at one point >> included a piece of extra software in their installation, that made use >> of what was known as the Java Bridge. This was a user choice, through >> the installation process of the screen reader. It provided the user a >> certain amount of access to the Java platform, all depending on to what >> extent the developer of the Java application had included the needed >> code in his project. If you are not an active Java user, you might want >> to uninstall this part of the WinEyes setup as well. The whole inclusion >> of the Java Bridge in WinEyes, was based on a user-written app, that GW >> decided to implement with their complete package. I do wonder if that >> was in version 7.5, or even 8, of the screen reader. >> >> As a bit of a fun-fact, some service providers over here did require >> Java for their login screen, two handful years ago. They claimed it to >> be due to safety. The consumer organization, along with a few other >> Actors on the market, did tell them to rewrite their log-in in a more >> safe manner. And today, they ain't using Java any longer, and have not >> done so for numerous years. >> >> Uninstalling Java, and I do think the Java Bridge as well, should be >> possible directly from Programs and Features, in Windows. I know that >> might be named differently in later Windows flavors, but you will know >> where to go on your system, to uninstall or modify installed software. >> If not, hit the Win-key, and type >> Uninstall >> and choose the appropriate thing that comes up.. From memory, you would >> be looking for entries that said: >> SunJava >> or something along that line. >> >> An update or installation screen of Java, could very likely be the one >> that is attempting to pop up a message on your screen. It very likely >> could trap your mouse, and it even likely could be invisible to the >> screen reader. Have not tried it for years, and so cannot testify to >> what NVDA will do about a Java window. But unless the developer of that >> very window has included screen reader access, there is no dice in >> accessing it by any other means than by two eyes. OK, you tell that you >> did have a screen coming up a bit back, apparently readable for the >> screen reader, since you say you did not understand what it was asking. >> Great, at least that screen was made accessible. But don't expect that >> to be the case with all screens from that platform. >> >> Off my memory, I do not remember if there was any hotkey that was to be >> activated in WinEyes, so as to operate the Java Bridge, or if that all >> happened automatically. If the mouse trapping comes on, try go to the >> Taskbar by hitting Win-B. Scroll the list, and when you get Java, press >> the app-key, or alternatively Shift-F10. The context menu, if any is >> available, will open. Scroll there, and see if it would offer you a >> choice of some setup. You might then be able to change settings for the >> behavior of the Java system. Or, in the context menu, there might be a >> choice for exitting the program. Temporarily turning it off, might >> release the mouse, should it be that Java is the trapper. Note that >> exiting Java through the context menu, will only be temporary. If >> nothing before, at least when you restart your computer, Java will be >> activated again. >> >> Peter, I do wonder if the a cancelled update wil be your very issue. It >> wil periodically attempt to redo the installation or updating, popping >> up on your screen whenever the time is up for doing so. Sometimes this >> will happen to be right when your computer is starting, other times it >> will be at any given moment through runtime. All depending on what kind >> of interval measuring the developer has set, it might kick in at given >> hours of the day, or it might attempt every 30 minutes or so. Since you >> start your computer this time today, that time tomorrow, it all seems >> rather randomly timed to you. >> >> Leave you here for the moment. Do feel fre to come back with your >> considerations and findings, and see if someone would happen to come up >> with a solution for you. You be glad it is a mouse you own, and not a >> rabit that would have jumped wildly around on your screen, never leaving >> you the chance of knowing where it was. Smiles. Cannot but make a joke >> out of a tricky case, at the moment. Hope you don't mind. >> >> >> David >> >> On 3/2/2020 3:23 AM, peter Chin wrote: >>> Hello David, >>> >>> Thanks so much for your suggestions. I will try to answer your >>> questions as >>> best I can >>> >>> First of all, about my system. No, I have never reinstalled Windows >>> since it >>> was set up more than a year ago. The only programs I have uninstalled >>> of any >>> significance were my Collins dictionary and my Word Web dictionary. I >>> am the >>> only person using this computer and to my knowledge I have never >>> clicked on >>> any offers of new programs. I use the network icon on the desktop as an >>> example but, surprisingly, I haven't heard the word "Network" being >>> repeated. I just chose the word out of the blue as an example. The >>> repeated >>> words could be part of the message or word file I am typing, or it >>> could be >>> words at the top or bottom of the screen if my mouse is in that >>> position. I >>> always disconnect the LAN cable from my computer whenever I go off >>> line. My >>> Desktop computer doesn't have a wireless connection. However, you >>> might have >>> a point about something trying to update. Java has been trying to get >>> me to >>> update but I recently abandoned the update halfway because I didn't >>> quite >>> understand what it was requiring me to do. I do diskclean at least >>> once a >>> day but I haven't used my C Cleaner for some time so I think I had >>> better >>> try that. I always avoid scheduling anything like antivirus or >>> defragging >>> programs, preferring to do these tasks manually when I have the >>> time. In >>> Windows 8, they don't use the word "Defrag" but "Optimize". I >>> optimize my >>> drives once inn a while even though I am told by Windows that my >>> drives do >>> not need optimizing. My antivirus program is the Windows Defender >>> provided >>> by Microsoft. I don't consider it a very effective antivirus program >>> so I am >>> ver wary about visiting strange websites. My computer technician did >>> put on >>> AVG for me but I told him to uninstall it as AVG has become rather >>> inaccessible. I don't think he did a very good job of it as I still find >>> traces of the program on my computer and that could be another source >>> of my >>> troubles. On the other hand, why should it only cause trouble >>> recently? Just for your info, since I reported this strange behaviour, >>> my mouse has been behaving properly, and the unwanted repetitions >>> have stopped. >>> >>> Thanks again and I am definitely going to clean up my computer with C >>> Cleaner tomorrow as I have to go out this evening. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- From: David >>> Sent: Saturday, February 29, 2020 12:43 PM >>> To: peter Chin ; Window-Eyes Discussion List >>> Subject: Solving Mouse Trap; (was: Can’t Install Free Trial of Window >>> Eyes) >>> >>> Well, Peter, >>> This really sounds like a nut. >>> >>> If something like you describe is repeated over and over, like: >>> Desktop, Network, Desktop, Network; >>> I am almost ready to think this is due to some background service >>> attempting to start, and likely not being able to perform what it wants. >>> That could be, >>> some sort of update, >>> an unstabil network connection, >>> Things like a disk Clean-up or Defragmentation, >>> Scheduled scanning jobs from your Anti-Virus; >>> or whatever else. >>> >>> Seemingly, the software is trying to do its job, fails, and pops back to >>> the Desktop - determines that it wants to try again, also this time >>> failing, and returning to the desktop. The screen reader is doing its >>> job, in picking up that something is going on, and reading out to you >>> what it can manage, before next operation is plunging in. Since this >>> retrying is rapidly going on, the screen reader might not have time to >>> read out all the dialogs, and you only hear the window titles spoken. GW >>> were asked several years ago, if a user-activated delaying filter could >>> be implemented, that would leave the screen reader time enough to >>> recognize and speak out dialogs like this, or even determine to skip >>> them altogether. Their reply in short, was that they did not see it as >>> anything useful. Another screen reader which I used before WinEyes, did >>> have such capability, which I found useful many a time. And NVDA seems >>> to be slow enough, or perhaps more like agressive enough, to pick up all >>> the info and take its time to read it aloud. >>> >>> Now for a moment, let's imagine my assumption is right. When the >>> software has kept attempting a preset number of times, it pops an error >>> message on you. That message is not visible to WinEyes, like we have >>> talked about earlier. This invisible window is trapping your mouse; and >>> you, are pulling your hair. Yes, a wild guess, but not totally out of >>> the blue either. >>> >>> Again, I suggest trying an alternative screen reader for a little. This >>> might just prove helpful, as another screen reader might pick up what is >>> going on, and read out some info that will point you to the real nest of >>> your trouble. Try install NVDA. Restart your computer, and when it is >>> all ready, turn off WinEyes. For instance by hitting Ctrl-Insert-F4, and >>> then Enter on the OK button. Then Start NVDA, by default Alt-Ctrl-N. >>> Work on your computer as normal, writing some stuff, checking your >>> email, browsing some familiar website, or whatever you typically are >>> doing on your computer. Try do some familiar job, that you do not have >>> to deal with a load of screen reader specific keystrokes. NVDA is >>> different, but it is not all that different, in straight forward >>> operation of the computer. One main thing to be aware, is that NVDA does >>> not operate the mouse, the way WinEyes does. So don't perform mouse >>> intensive activity, and at least do not expect same result as you are >>> used to. Our goal is first of all, to see if NVDA wants to pick up any >>> screen info when your computer starts to play jokes on you. >>> >>> Peter, is this a fairly newly installed system? Or, is it an old one >>> that has been installed, updated and reinstalled who knows how many >>> times. I am just asking, because loads of installing and uninstalling, >>> upgraded and fooled around with systems, they get messed up over time. >>> In such cases, a thorough clean-up might be adviced. Things like >>> CCleaner could be one lane to go. >>> >>> Are you aware whether you have any extra featuring app or software >>> installed. For instance, some sales websites offer you to install what >>> is named a "toolbar", that will remind you of things like when an offer >>> comes on, or when it is time for you to pay attension to the auction you >>> are bidding on. Toolbars could have many other functions, so these were >>> just to samplify. Trouble about this kind of stuff, is that it in its >>> basic is to be named Adware, but due to the user himself having accepted >>> it to be installed, they claim that it will not categorize as malware. >>> Still, it could activate itself, whenever it thinks it is supposed to. >>> Hope you don't mind me reminding every reader of this thread, never to >>> click on anything that offers you a ton, without knowing that you want >>> it, and are OK with the activity involved. I do not mean to say this is >>> what goes on with your system, just mentioning that this could be >>> something to consider. >>> >>> Do you have any anti ware installed? Anti-Virus, Anti-Malware, >>> Anti-Spyware? If so, run a full scan on your computer, even with each >>> and everyone of the anti-packages you might own. Alternatively, use an >>> online scanner. This just to make sure we have uprooted any weeds. >>> >>> Since you particularly mentioned the speech saying >>> Network >>> when the issue comes up, I do wonder if your network connection is going >>> crazy. First, if you are on a wired connection, make sure that all >>> cables are tightly and snugly fit. That includes the cable from your >>> computer to the modem, and the one from the modem to the wall socket. >>> Even the ones on any router or other hooked up units you might have. >>> >>> Are you on a wireless network, make sure that the cables from the modem >>> to the wall, and to the router if applicable, are all tightly fit. Your >>> wireless never gets better than what the cables dictate. If you know how >>> to, maybe try resetting your wireless connection, or even changing the >>> password. Even cross the yard, between different apartmens, and >>> sometimes surprisingly long distance, others might be able to use your >>> wireless connection. Have you any other people in your dwelling who are >>> using their wireless units while you are on the computer? Or, have you >>> recently refurnished your home, and now something like your radio or TV >>> is troubling the wireless signals. It all could disturb the flow, and >>> cause your computer to rapidly go on- and offline. Had some of that >>> experience myself, many years ago. Did not understand what was going on, >>> until I called the Internet Provider, and the tech guy told me that my >>> internet had frequently gone on and off for the last few hours. >>> >>> Of course, if you want to play the full game of tracing - you could >>> disconnect from the network. Disconnect the cable from your computer, or >>> turn off the wireless switch if it has one. If nothing else, turn off >>> your modem - unless that would cause inconvinience to you in any other >>> way. Then start your computer all from start. That is, do not wake it up >>> from hibernation or sleeping mode. Give it what we name a "cold boot". >>> Now perform some normal offline activity for a period of time, long >>> enough that you are sure the issue normally would have shown up. See if >>> the issue does poke out its nose. You could of course lengthen the to-do >>> list by also going to Network setup on your computer, and turn off the >>> network there, just to inform the computer that it most definitely could >>> save itself the trouble in attempting to connect to any network. >>> >>> Peter, I am aware that the thing you are facing might not be network >>> related at all. I just spent a moment on advicing what to do, so as to >>> shelter out one possibility. Is it always saying "network", when the >>> unwanted speech goes on, or does it randomly give other messages. one >>> thing could be to make some notes whenever the unwanted speech comes on, >>> over a day or so, and let us know what it has been saying. Know that is >>> a lot of extra trouble, and not sure if it will take us much further, >>> but do give it some consideration. >>> >>> If you recently had someone fooling with your system, like some >>> servicing personel, grandchildren or friends that wanted to help you out >>> - be aware that they forcefully, or totally unknowingly, might have >>> turned on some stuff that could be causing the issue. Maybe because they >>> found it useful, and did not realize what trouble it would be for you. >>> >>> All wild guesses. And probably you feel more confused than ever. >>> Troubleshooting could be quite a go, and specially so when we do not see >>> all the glittery, flashing and colorful nignags that sighted people so >>> greatly enjoy now aday on their screens. Unfortunately often such stuff >>> is more of a trouble to the screen readers. >>> >>> >>> On 2/29/2020 3:55 AM, peter Chin wrote: >>>> Hello David, >>>> >>>> My mouse problems can show up at start-up or at any time afterwards. >>> Trouble is, I don't know exactly when it happens after start-up unless I >>> happen to want to use the mouse and I discover that the mouse is not >>> working. When the mouse is not working, the cursor usually appears to be >>> working fine. Whether the mouse is working or not, unwanted parts of >>> the screen can suddenly start reading, often repeating many times, such >>> as "Network, desktop, network, Desktop, network, desktop" and so on. >>>> At the moment as I am writing this reply, the mouse seems to be >>> working alright. >>>> I realise that this kind of unpredictable behaviour is difficult to >>> solve and I really appreciate your efforts to help. >>>> Thanks a lot. >>>> -----Original Message----- From: David >>>> Sent: Thursday, February 27, 2020 7:40 PM >>>> To: peter Chin ; Window-Eyes Discussion List >>>> Subject: Re: Can’t Install Free Trial of Window Eyes >>>> >>>> Peter, >>>> Let's see if I get you right. Please correct me where I am off-tracked. >>>> >>>> You start your computer, and the screen reader. For the most part, it >>>> starts out as expected, with all mouse movements functioning. As you >>>> keep working, all the sudden, and apparently without any further >>>> notice, >>>> your mouse goes for a garden-party, and all the fun it leaves you is >>>> the >>>> word "blank" when you try to control it. Did we get it right this far? >>>> >>>> This behavior takes place whether you are in one or the other >>>> application.. You mentioned WLM and Windows Explorer. But are they the >>>> only places the thing happens, or does it happen in pretty much any >>>> other software as well? And, do you have an idea, whether this takes >>>> place after a given amount of runtime. Does it typically happen after >>>> say five minutes working time, or is it totally out of any time frame. >>>> >>>> Lastly, does it disappear after a while? >>>> >>>> At this point, I will have to do a couple of wild guesses. See if that >>>> takes us anywhere. What might be an extra question is, do you have any >>>> other screen reader installed. That is, do you for instance have >>>> NVDA on >>>> your computer. Sometimes this can prove a beneficial thing. NVDA has in >>>> a number of cases, proven to be a bit more agressive in grabbing info >>>> from the screen. And due to NVDA still being developed, it keeps up >>>> with >>>> modern screens in a way that WinEyes not always live up to. Put it the >>>> way, that NVDA does a quick go and get what it gets - whilst WinEyes >>>> does go about it a bit more thoroughly, but only get so much out of the >>>> job. Both being beneficial in their own ways. And here might be one of >>>> the cases when the more tools will give us the better job done. >>>> >>>> What I do get from the description you gave, the way I read it, >>>> seems to >>>> me you have some kind of a popup window showing up on your screen. A >>>> popup that WinEyes might not notice, but still gets crazy about. At >>>> least your mouse might enjoy it. Such popups could be notifications >>>> coming from other software, who needs a permission to update. Windows 7 >>>> and up, introduced us to a new measure of security, in the User Acount >>>> Control - which will ask your permission before performing any >>>> deep-going action on your computer, like an update or bigger >>>> altering of >>>> your software. Now, what if your anti-virus, your email program or any >>>> other piece of software needs to install an update. This update is of >>>> some major concern to the operativ system, and it will popup a message >>>> asking if you are comfortable with this software's meddling with your >>>> system. You likely have seen this kind of message, when attempting to >>>> install new software. OK, sometimes software have built-in popups on >>>> their own. I am not a WLM user, so cannot speak for that one, but it >>>> could be it has some extra fun in popping out a message window every >>>> now >>>> and then. >>>> >>>> Thing about such popups, is that they are not always easy to see for >>>> WinEyes. And they go hide themselves behind any other stuff. Still the >>>> mouse might stick with them. NVDA, though, has proven to be useful >>>> on my >>>> system, in cases like that. It might pick up popups even when they >>>> appear, and quite often alt-tabbing through the list of open software, >>>> NVDA will report if it finds any open popups. If things like you >>>> describe happens to me, I quickly press the hotkey to start NVDA, and >>>> once it comes up, I might Alt-Tab my way around. Sometimes just >>>> starting >>>> NVDA, and it automatically discovers and reads out the popup to me. >>>> Funny thing is, when NVDA is active, I can get WinEyes to focus on the >>>> popup and maybe even interact with it, something that is out of >>>> question >>>> with WinEyes running on its own. Drawback of it all, of course is, that >>>> you will have to deal with both screen readers chattering >>>> simultaneously >>>> for the moment you have NVDA loaded. But you just need it for the time >>>> of discovering what is going on. Once you have done what you need to >>>> do, >>>> you just close down NVDA, and back to WinEyes. >>>> >>>> The other thing that could be worth a try, is for a while to turn off >>>> all apps in WinEyes. I am not aware which app would cause your trouble, >>>> but it might just be worth the go. >>>> >>>> Does your system give any pling or plung, when this misbehavior >>>> happens. >>>> I do not mean when you press the mouse keys, but just in general. often >>>> when a popup occurs, it might be linked with some kind of a warning >>>> sound or tiny jingle. This to alert even sighted people, that the >>>> computer is requesting some extra user interaction. >>>> >>>> Again, wild guesses. Your issue might have a hundred other reasons, and >>>> likely other listers will have good tips here. Sometimes other software >>>> does take over the key control, kicking the screen reader out of >>>> business. But since you tell this started a few days back, and with no >>>> unusual activity leading up to it, I hold that to be less likely in >>>> your >>>> case. >>>> >>>> What comes to mind though, is for you to make sure your WinEyes has the >>>> right keyboard layout. Please go to your WinEyes Control Panel. In the >>>> tree of menu choices, focus >>>> Keyboard. >>>> Open it by hitting the Right Arrow. Now scroll down to the last of the >>>> choices, which should say something like >>>> Keyboard Layout. >>>> Use your tab-key once. >>>> In the list, choose >>>> Window-Eyes Default. >>>> Again tab once, and hit Enter on the button that says >>>> Activate Layout. >>>> >>>> Since your screen reader behaves OK in some cases, I hold this keyboard >>>> layout very little likely, but still does not hurt to make sure things >>>> are rightfully set up. Feel free to get back with your findings, and >>>> let >>>> the community know if you still have no luck. Unfortunately, I have >>>> seen >>>> certain cases when a popup blocked screen reader activity, and there >>>> was >>>> no other way than to have two eyes interact. HP systems did have a >>>> tendency on this, when they performed updates to the system dependent >>>> software. But don't despair all yet, a few more workarounds could be >>>> tried, if the issue proves to be a popup. First let's discern if >>>> that is >>>> the case. >>>> >>>> As for my backup script, I will get it ready for you. I wrote it for my >>>> own usage, numerous years ago. I'll brush it up, write a quick little >>>> get-started guide, and send it over to you. Might take a week's time, >>>> but i'll keep it in mind. Smiles. >>>> >>>> And in case you co't own NVDA, get it free from: >>>> nvda-project.org >>>> >>>> >>>> David >>>> >>>> On 2/27/2020 5:09 AM, peter Chin wrote: >>>>> Hello David, >>>>> >>>>> Thank you so much for your very extensive reply. Yes, I must admit I >>>>> didn't give enough details abou my problems. I was in a bit of a hurry >>>>> as I had several other things to be done. >>>>> >>>>> First, about the mouse keys. Sometimes when I am on the desktop or in >>>>> my user folder, moving the mouse with the mouse keys does not read >>>>> anything. If I try to read current icon or line, or if I move the >>>>> mouse up or down or left to right or the other way, WE just says >>>>> "blank". lefgt or right clicking on what I think should be the icon or >>>>> folder I moved the mouse to does have some effect. This can also >>>>> happen when I am in WLM. Sometimes, however, the mouse keys move as >>>>> expected. Trouble is, I don't know when and why this happens. >>>>> Restarting WE or restarting the computer does not solve the problem >>>>> when the mouse keys do not work. I only noticed this strange behaviour >>>>> a few days ago. I was not messking around with any settings at the >>>>> time but had just started my computer. Whether the moue keys >>>>> areworking or not, WE may just start parts of the screen I am not >>>>> interested in. >>>>> >>>>> As for backing up, I don't know how to back up my C drive but I have a >>>>> copy of my WE Defult folder and I have all my data files backed up. I >>>>> am not very good at writing batch files, especially for Windows, so >>>>> would be very glad to have your batch file which you mentioned. >>>>> >>>>> Thanks in advance. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- From: David >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, February 26, 2020 8:15 PM >>>>> To: peter Chin ; Window-Eyes Discussion List >>>>> Subject: Re: Can’t Install Free Trial of Window Eyes >>>>> >>>>> Your mouse keys do not work as expected? Sorry to hear that. Yet, I am >>>>> afraid i do not know what exactly you mean. Is it something going >>>>> on in >>>>> all applications, or is it only (at least mainly) happening in some >>>>> particular piece of software.? Are you aware when it all started, >>>>> and if >>>>> so, do you have a clue what you did just prior to this behavior taking >>>>> place? >>>>> >>>>> Reason I am assking, is that it might point us in the direction of >>>>> picking up a solution for you. In case you have made any updates, >>>>> played >>>>> around with some settings, or installed some extra software or apps >>>>> - it >>>>> might be a place to start helping you out. Could you explain, please, >>>>> what it is you expect, and what does not work? >>>>> >>>>> It has been a known fact, that the mouse sometimes gets stuck in a >>>>> position on the screen. Usually this would mean one of the corners. >>>>> And >>>>> why this happens might have as many answers as there are questions. >>>>> Still, whenever something show up in that posistion - like some status >>>>> message, for instance - WinEyes will read it out to you. That is >>>>> because >>>>> the screen reader is doing its job, however strange that might sound. >>>>> See, the screen reader is such constructed, that it will keep an >>>>> eye on >>>>> your screen, and let you know whenever some info shows up, in places >>>>> that you tell is of special interest. Placing your mouse, is one >>>>> way of >>>>> telling the screen reader to watch out for updated info. Now, if your >>>>> mouse runs over and dig itself a new hole, wherever on your screen, >>>>> the >>>>> screen reader will track the mouse, and determine that likely you >>>>> enjoy >>>>> to have it chattering everything that the mouse "sniffs" in its stuck >>>>> position. No, I am not trying to be jokie. This is the real fact. The >>>>> big issue, and main solution, will be to have the mouse dragged loose >>>>> from its stubborn place, and tell it to behave like good tiny mice are >>>>> supposed to. >>>>> >>>>> Exactly why your mouse misbehaves, will be the thing we need to guess >>>>> and play around. >>>>> >>>>> Are you on a desktop, or a laptop computer? If on a laptop, could >>>>> it be >>>>> that you accidentially are activating the touchpad when operating the >>>>> computer. Some computers can turn off the touchpad, and if that is the >>>>> case with yours, you might have ended up turning it back on - meaning >>>>> that every time you place your hands on the laptop, you are in the >>>>> risk >>>>> of swiping the sensors of the pad, and the mouse will run like as if >>>>> you >>>>> had let the cat into the room. Solutions then, could be to make >>>>> sure to >>>>> deactivate the touchpad, adjust the sensitivity, or whatever features >>>>> your computer offers you. Or, simply connect a USB mouse, and hide >>>>> it in >>>>> the very rear of your desk, that you don't ever get in touch with it. >>>>> >>>>> Do you have the habit of once in a while backing up your system? or at >>>>> least the WinEyes profile folder? If so, probably one quick fix >>>>> would be >>>>> to simply copy your backup into the profile folder - thereby rolling >>>>> your screen reader back to a point of well-behaving. >>>>> >>>>> If you do not own a bakup hard drive, there are a few suggestions for >>>>> regularly being able to back up your screen reader profile, along with >>>>> other personal files and settings. First of all, the WinEyes folder >>>>> usually do not get very big. So even a cheap memory card of any size >>>>> from 1GB and up, will suffice. That is, if your computer has a memory >>>>> card slot. Otherwise, USB pen drives, again from 1GB and up, will be >>>>> something to consider. Dig deep in your desk drawer, and see if you >>>>> have >>>>> some old hardware that can be put to good use here. And what if you >>>>> simply don't have either cards or pen drives? Make for yourself a >>>>> subfolder on your main hard disk. Name it something like: >>>>> My Backup. >>>>> Simply copy any stuff from all over your hard disk, that you want to >>>>> make an extra backup of, into this local space. It might prove >>>>> helpful, >>>>> since you don't have to connect and disconnect anything, whenever you >>>>> want a backup. You could even make a tiny batch file, that sits on >>>>> your >>>>> desktop, and whenever being called, would back up files from several >>>>> locations. Then run it once a week, or every time you think you have >>>>> made important updates and changes. It will not work for a backup of >>>>> your complete system, and not for Windows itself. it might not take >>>>> care >>>>> of all backup issues. But it will do for things like your screen >>>>> reader >>>>> profile and personal files. >>>>> >>>>> And if you are not comfortable in writing batch files, I do have a >>>>> tiny >>>>> script here, that I developed a number of years ago. It will let you >>>>> set >>>>> up a list of files and locations, that can be copied in one go. It is >>>>> written outside WinEyes, meaning it can be run from anywhere, and with >>>>> whichever screen reader you prefer. Whoever wants a copy, can >>>>> contact me >>>>> off-list, and I'd send it over. >>>>> >>>>> Or, you could of course use an Online service for backing up, like >>>>> OneDrive or Dropbox. Unfortunately, online services are not as private >>>>> as they want you to believe, so keep that in mind. In case you have a >>>>> backup media, you might want a backup client, that automatically will >>>>> keep track of any changes. For one, Casper will be a choice to >>>>> consider. >>>>> Good thing about such solution, is that you can back up your whole >>>>> system. even the Operativ System. Have used it a good deal, and >>>>> benefitted from it at the latest this last week, when my system got >>>>> screwed up, and I could simply swap disks, and be up running in no >>>>> time. >>>>> >>>>> OK, long message, and not sure it helped you much. But to be of more >>>>> assistance, I think we need to know more specifically what is your >>>>> issue, in its details. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> David >>>>> >>>>> On 2/26/2020 8:23 AM, peter Chin wrote: >>>>>> es, the Window-Eyes for office still works for Windows 8.1 which I am >>>>>> using. However, within the last few days it has been behaving >>>>>> strangely. My mouse keys don't work properly and Window_eyes keeps >>>>>> reading other parts of the screen, especially the areas where the >>>>>> mouse is sitting. Any suggestions as to how to resolve the problem >>>>>> will be much appreciated. >>>>>> -----Original Message----- From: David via Talk >>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2020 8:12 AM >>>>>> To: Window-Eyes Discussion List >>>>>> Cc: David >>>>>> Subject: Re: Can’t Install Free Trial of Window Eyes >>>>>> >>>>>> Interesting. I just had a quick look. Going to >>>>>> >>>>>> gwmicro.com >>>>>> >>>>>> It sure looked like the site is still up. Yet, I did find nowhere to >>>>>> download anything but some tutorials, and a number of videos. Well, >>>>>> and >>>>>> then the App Central. Why I still wonder exactly which website the >>>>>> assumed demo version would have been attempted downloaded from. >>>>>> >>>>>> If the user still knows the address where the download was attempted, >>>>>> either retry the download and see if the file comes out with a more >>>>>> trusty size, or try search the net for another download. Of course, >>>>>> someone might have a demo sitting around, Does the Office version >>>>>> even >>>>>> work any longer? Or is all that lane closed, after the cooperation >>>>>> discontinued? I did not have any demos here, only my purchased >>> versions. >>>>>> David >>>>>> >>>>>> On 2/25/2020 12:53 AM, Sky Mundell via Talk wrote: >>>>>>> Actually the website is still online and it says 2020 AI Squared. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>> From: Talk [mailto:[email protected]] >>>>>> On Behalf Of Loy Green via Talk >>>>>>> Sent: Monday, February 24, 2020 3:46 PM >>>>>>> To: Window-Eyes Discussion List >>>>>>> Cc: Loy Green >>>>>>> Subject: Re: Can’t Install Free Trial of Window Eyes >>>>>>> >>>>>>> That site has not been active for a couple of years since Freedom >>>>>> Scientific >>>>>>> purchased ZoomText and Window Eyes. >>>>>>> Window Eyes is no longer available unless you get it from a former >>>>>>> user.----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>> From: "Armando Vias via Talk" <[email protected]> >>>>>>> To: <[email protected]> >>>>>>> Cc: "Armando Vias" <[email protected]> >>>>>>> Sent: Monday, February 24, 2020 5:19 PM >>>>>>> Subject: Can’t Install Free Trial of Window Eyes >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hey all. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> This is my first post. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> For some reason, I can’t install the Window Eyes Program. It says >>>>>> that it >>>>>>>> is 83 bytes. When I try to install it, my computer says that it is >>>>>>>> corrupted. I am using a 64-bit version of Windows 10. What should I >>>>>>>> do? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Armando >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> — >>>>>>>> Armando Vias >>>>>>>> Owner of The Blind Advocate Network >>>>>>>> Website: https://theblindadvocate.net >>>>>>>> Phone: (404) 4803436 >>>>>>>> Email: [email protected] >>>>>>>> Like my page on Facebook: >>>>>> https://www.facebook.com/theblindadvocatenetwork >>>>>>>> Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/theblndadvn >>>>>>>> “Getting advocacy results for the blind.” >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> For membership options, visit >>>>>>>> >>> http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/loyrg2845%40gmail.com. >>> >>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>> For subscription options, visit >>>>>>>> http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com >>>>>>>> List archives can be found at >>>>>>>> http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of >>>>>>> the >>>>>> author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. >>>>>>> For membership options, visit >>> http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/skyt%40shaw.ca. >>> >>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> For subscription options, visit >>>>>> http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com >>>>>>> List archives can be found at >>>>>> http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of >>>>>>> the >>>>>> author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. >>>>>>> For membership options, visit >>> http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/trailerdavid%40hotmail.com. >>> >>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> For subscription options, visit >>>>>> http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com >>>>>>> List archives can be found at >>>>>> http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the >>>>>> author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. >>>>>> >>>>>> For membership options, visit >>>>>> >>> http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/peter.chinpk%40gmail.com. >>> >>> >>>>>> For subscription options, visit >>>>>> http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com >>>>>> List archives can be found at >>>>>> http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com >>>>>> . >>>>> . >>>> . >>> . >> . > _______________________________________________ > Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author > and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. > > For membership options, visit > http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/trailerdavid%40hotmail.com. > For subscription options, visit > http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com > List archives can be found at > http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com _______________________________________________ Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. For membership options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/archive%40mail-archive.com. For subscription options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com List archives can be found at http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com
