I agree Leroy, it’s a start and allows everyone in the community to see what steps have been taken in trying to get a resolution. Maybe the Facebook issue (and other conglomerates!) needs its own page to document clearly what has been done and what resolution has been the outcome of the various steps. It helps to build knowledge for future cases.
I had a win with a site after a second contact. That was after doing extra research and finding the actual people who maintained the site. The issue was then quickly fixed. I am also happy to keep on the issue with companies in my own country to ensure they understand the obligations. If they can see that other companies have the ability to do the right thing then it shows its not a major hassle. Its also useful to know how these people create their sites. It may well be that plugins or other web software can be modified to ensure that the attribution is always applied (especially in the case of smaller organisations). Maybe even OSM endorsed products could help in this respect? Cheers - Phil From: Leroy Olivier <leroy....@gmail.com> Sent: Saturday, 21 December 2019 1:25 AM To: Nuno Caldeira <nunocapelocalde...@gmail.com> Cc: Pierre Béland <pierz...@yahoo.fr>; OSMF Talk <osmf-t...@openstreetmap.org>; OpenStreetMap talk mailing list <talk@openstreetmap.org> Subject: Re: [Osmf-talk] [OSM-talk] Attribution guideline status update Hello, Even if sometimes I fail to follow the topic (due to my poor english) I found that it is an interesting one. I don't have a good idea of what should be done but I slightly disagree with @Numo on this point : @Phil Wyatt don't get me wrong, but adding something there is useless. i added Facebook there over one year ago. They don't have shame, no point to add companies there, when there's sites and companies that been there for years without real consequence. It's just a wiki page that most won't ever acknowledge. Maybe the wiki is not the better solution but having a way to illustrate the "attribution problem" and keep track of it feel important to me. I don't think this will solve all the problems but at one point we will need a way to accumulate knowledge and produce some kind of visualization/quantification either to negotiate (or try) or broadcast it. The wiki is a good beginning how can we improve it ? Cheers, Le ven. 20 déc. 2019 à 14:41, Nuno Caldeira <nunocapelocalde...@gmail.com <mailto:nunocapelocalde...@gmail.com> > a écrit : @Rihards Thanks. I will try to do that documentation over the holidays. @Phil Wyatt don't get me wrong, but adding something there is useless. i added Facebook there over one year ago. They don't have shame, no point to add companies there, when there's sites and companies that been there for years without real consequence. It's just a wiki page that most won't ever acknowledge. As an xmas bonus, here's another Facebook company (via Mapbox), Snapchat that is using OSM without attribution requirements (funnily there's plenty of space for a reasonable and visible calculated mapbox logo and text). They probably don't know, nor that they have been asked to comply over a year ago, nor have agreed with the license in every aspect of it when stated using OSM data, nor read Mapbox TOS, or Mapbox been informed on these repeated offenders, nor read the multiples reports in mailing lists, nor that they had a employee that ran for OSMF board. https://map.snapchat.com/ Let's continue to be hypocrites and pretend nothing is going on for over a year with these two companies that are corporate members of OSMF and should be the first ones to give examples. Enough with excuses. Happy holidays. Às 09:34 de 20/12/2019, Rihards escreveu: On 20.12.19 09:42, Nuno Caldeira wrote: hi Pierre, I have tried that route multiple times in twitter, they will ignore. as they ignore emails (even if you CC le...@osmfoundation.org <mailto:le...@osmfoundation.org> <mailto:le...@osmfoundation.org> <mailto:le...@osmfoundation.org>), the license, the mailing list. if you can read the attribution clearly here let me know https://twitter.com/iamnunocaldeira/status/1207927051669397504?s=19 this is not manipulated or cropped, straight out of the app. Nuno, thank you for documenting the attribution concerns. It is understandable that repeated problems are frustrating. We as OSM contributors see so many of them, and by the hundredth case we perceive them as repeat offenders. I try to remind myself that absolute majority do not do this on purpose, and that my perception should not connect a new case to all the previous ones. It is harder than it might sound :) Without diving into specifics of each case, it still seems important to have clear documentation on major cases. Have you had a chance to put together a dedicated wiki page about Facebook? It has been repeated in email threads many times, but if a student came around and wanted to put together a research about attribution, copyright and whatnot - would they have an easy time getting a complete picture of Facebook attitude towards OSM attribution? It would be crucial for that page to be neutral and avoid accusations, even when Occam's razor seems huge and shiny - pure facts would fit there best. On Fri, 20 Dec 2019, 00:14 Pierre Béland, <pierz...@yahoo.fr <mailto:pierz...@yahoo.fr> <mailto:pierz...@yahoo.fr> <mailto:pierz...@yahoo.fr>> wrote: Hi Nuno, How can we react positively suggesting to take care obout OSM attribution ? This is an international media and we can benefit by having a bit of fun. Plus this is Christmas coming soon and we need to think positive ! You could make tweet to https://twitter.com/BBCTwo + using OpenStreetMap logo image (add @OpenStreetMap as who is on the image) + url link to facebook article saying /Merry Christmas from the OpenStreetMap community Happy to /provide accurate and detailed maps/ to news medias, governnments, research, business, consumers, to respond to disasters, etc. Dont forget - Our New Year Best Wishes to have more impact - OpenStreetMap Contributors attribution :)/ / / Then you could invite OSM contributors on the discussion lists to make it Viral by responding ! To show OSM diversity, I would be pleased to respond to the tweet. /Bonne année, Pierre Béland, du Québec, Canada, fier de supporter OpenStreetMap. / ;) Pierre Le jeudi 19 décembre 2019 18 h 16 min 44 s UTC−5, Nuno Caldeira <nunocapelocalde...@gmail.com <mailto:nunocapelocalde...@gmail.com> <mailto:nunocapelocalde...@gmail.com> <mailto:nunocapelocalde...@gmail.com>> a écrit : here's another lovely example from BBC TWO using Strava (i can spot the Mapbox logo, not the reasonable calculated ©OpenStreetMap contributors). glad BBC attributed Google properly. they probably aren't aware it's OpenStreetMap, if they can't read the attribution on Strava https://www.facebook.com/413132078795966/posts/2468472903261863/ On Fri, 1 Nov 2019, 18:59 Nuno Caldeira, <nunocapelocalde...@gmail.com <mailto:nunocapelocalde...@gmail.com> <mailto:nunocapelocalde...@gmail.com> <mailto:nunocapelocalde...@gmail.com>> wrote: On Fri, 1 Nov 2019, 18:05 Simon Poole, <si...@poole.ch <mailto:si...@poole.ch> <mailto:si...@poole.ch> <mailto:si...@poole.ch>> wrote: The fair use point just turned up to illustrate that there are limits on what we can expect copyright to do for us (aka the tweets from private individuals showing a map excerpt that Nuno pointed to) and there is no point in getting upset over that there are such limitations. actually Simon those prints indivuals share on social media is sent to their emails by the company (as someone pointed after you writing). Strava sends emails of OSM basemap to their users without attribution. I been testing Strava app today and had a couple of laughts TB. tYhere's even more interesting stuff we should take notice when doing the attribution guidance. they use Google maps on their android app, the routes they display clearly isn't from their users (it's not GPS traces as it is impossible to have no overlaping traces on mountain regions). I'm sure these routes are from OSM and I'm gathering evidence from my contributions that this is OSM data. I will get back to it when I get home and record a video with clear evidence that it is impossible to be their users GPS trace or Google Maps (as they do not have data in that regions). That could only come from OSM and I'm sure as I added that data and weekly monitor the editing and their suggested routes sometimes overlap the same route as it displayed different versions of OSM data during the years. -- Rihards _______________________________________________ osmf-talk mailing list osmf-t...@openstreetmap.org <mailto:osmf-t...@openstreetmap.org> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/osmf-talk -- Olivier Leroy Docteur Géographie et Environnement Post-doctorant EVS ANR Rêveries <http://reveries-project.fr/> 06.18.37.18.08
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