I second that. The learning curve is definately steep and you sometimes fig
things out on a trial and error basis. I think most session nightmares occur
(again just my take) is cuz ppl wont follow the cascading and object states
rule as outlined in the doc on HB. Keeping those rules in mind it becomes
seamless.
but yea, it would be "very" helpful if the guys over @ the HB mailing list
were as friendly and responsive as this list :)
From: Paul Cantrell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: "Tapestry users" <tapestry-user@jakarta.apache.org>
To: "Tapestry users" <tapestry-user@jakarta.apache.org>
Subject: Re: Back to Tapestry after an Year
Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2005 09:49:55 -0600
Begging your pardon, but Hibernate is no nightmare. We shouldn't start a
HIbernate discussion on this list -- take your questions to the Hibernate
lists, but I just wanted to counteract the fear factor of a message like
this. I've used it on four projects ranging from small to *massive*, and
it worked very nicely on all four. We never ran into "session nightmares,"
and multiple clicks on submit buttons are web framework issues, not OR
issues! So if anybody out there is considering it, don't be scared off.
Note also that in Tapestry, if you're using Java 1.5, you don't need .page
files at all. The code that comes out of 4.0 (when properly used) is
incredibly concise. I do agree that Tapestry has dragged along a lot of
bloat in the form of new, better approached -- but if you stick with the
newest, best approach it's really very nice.
What's *sorely* lacking is good documentation on those newest, best
approaches! I'd like to see a tutorial that:
(1) does actual database work from the start, and
(2) uses annotations instead of .page files.
All that said, I'll probably check out Wicket and Cayenne sometime.
Cheers,
Paul
On Aug 12, 2005, at 9:15 AM, Gentry, Michael (Contractor) wrote:
I'm not trying to start a flame war here, but if you don't already have
an investment in Hibernate, you might want to consider using Cayenne
with your Tapestry application for database persistence. Cayenne
doesn't seem to include the "nightmare" problems with sessions and
multiple clicks on submit buttons that I see on this list all the time.
Stick a Cayenne DataContext in your Tapestry Visit and things work
pretty well. Cayenne is also quite featureful and under active
development.
/dev/mrg
-----Original Message-----
From: Peter Veentjer - Anchor Men [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, August 12, 2005 3:29 AM
To: Tapestry users; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: Back to Tapestry after an Year
We had the same problem. Personally I don`t have much problems with the
complexity of Tapestry, but I can`t speak for the whole team. That is
why we are going to use Wicket (99% chance). Tapestry and Wicket look
the same (on the surface) and the both have a lot of the same options
but wicket is a lot cleaner (no more page file and no more
extracting/inserting content in pages). I think Tapestry is getting a
littlebit bloated/draging along to much garbage.
If Tapestry could start over, I would love to see what they could make
of it.
BTW:
Hibernate can be a nightmare. It is difficult to get the session
problems right. We have been discussing various session strategies for
more than a month, and finally came up with something usefull. The
biggest problems with sessions are the many ways you can deal with them,
and that it is difficult to find others with similar problems. We are
glad it works and I`m glad I can reason about what is going on.
And if you throw Spring next to Hibernate/Tapestry(or Wicket) you have a
nice combination. Hibernate for the or-mapping. Tapestry for the visual
aspect, and Spring glueing everything together.
-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van: Varun Mehta [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Verzonden: vrijdag 12 augustus 2005 9:07
Aan: tapestry-user@jakarta.apache.org
Onderwerp: Back to Tapestry after an Year
Hi Fellas,
I had studied Tapestry 3.0 beta, somewhere in
Jan-Feb 2004, but could not go ahead and implement
the same, as the learning curve for the team was a
bit too high, and settled on for the Petstore
application. Now I back in the same boat where I
need to get back to a framework. The debate is b/w
Struts - Webworks - Tapestry. I personally vouch for
Tapestry cos it's cleaner for the HTML guys in the
long run. Struts is something I want to avoid.
I don't recall much of Tapestry. I was going through
some sites and found the betterpetshop application
based on Tapestry at
https://betterpetshop.dev.java.net/, also at the
same time found some criticizm on the project, as in
it uses a lot of workarounds & does not implement
Tapestry properly.
http://www.jroller.com/page/cardsharp/Weblog?catname=%2FJava
Tapestry is all about stateful user interactions.
It's designed to let you work with objects instead
of request parameters. (This article assumes you
WANT to work with objects instead of IDs. Plenty
of Tapestry apps just throw ID's around to get
around the problems mentioned in this posting,
e.g. the Better Petshop project.) Hibernate is
also about state. It's about serializing object
state into a relational database. It's also very
good at working with "detached" objects. In other
words, you can load persistent objects in one
Hibernate session and reattach them during a later
session. You can even modify the object between
sessions.
Can anybody help me with the issue. Also I need a
place where I can read an updated tutorial on the
framework and train the team fast on it. The book
'Tapestry in Action' is already issued out to
someone else, so will take some time to be back in
the library, meanwhile I need to study and give a
presentation on 'WHY TAPESTRY'. The combination we
are looking for is Tapestry + Hibernate.
What I've read and feel is Tapestry + Hibernate is
Rocket fuel. If you take care and use it properly,
you are in space, else a minor mistake and a mid-way
boom!!..
Please suggest.
Regards
Varun Mehta
- http://varun.cjb.net
- http://varuninfo.cjb.net
- http://varunmehta.cjb.net
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