Thanks! Trouble with crazy gear is it takes up space in the car! I'm on an Akg stick on condensor microphone through an Art tube preamp thing. Not because I carefully selected it, but because someone recommended that as simple and good sounding... Best
On Mon, May 25, 2009 at 3:49 PM, MinnesotaMandolin <[email protected]>wrote: > > Robin-- > > I'm very happy to hear things went better. I was working in the garden > thinking about your post and I just posted up a "front to back" > suggestion list. Glad it helped. > > I think one speaker/no monitor is a great set up, it forces > simplicity. > > Experience will go a long ways towards making this easier. I think > your big problem will be all the crazy gear out there you can plug > into to make your pickup sound like wood. After $1000s and a few > years, I've just added a mic to my rig. If you want to talk brand > names and stuff, I'd be happy to do it. It's hard to find mandolin > oriented gear, it's mostly acoustic guitar stuff, but I've tried a lot > of it and don't mind sharing what I've learned. > > good luck with the next show > > erik > > > > > On May 25, 2:35 am, Robin Gravina <[email protected]> wrote: > > Erik > > Thanks for all that advice - it's really good to have some practical and > > concrete suggestions to apply. In the end it went well - we turned it up > for > > the soundcheck and it sounded pretty horrible and harsh, but after some > > fiddling, the instruments began to sound like they were made of wood, and > > the show went great - no feedback issues, we could hear ourselves and so > > could the audience despite no monitor and only one big speaker (no room > for > > anything more). The bar immediately booked us in again, so very happy > about > > that! > > > > I still have some work to go on the sound thing - mainly with getting > > acoustic tones - it has just ocurred to me that maybe I could try putting > > the output of the mixing desk high and the volume of the powered speaker > low > > - too many options for me. > > > > Now all I have to do is stop my right hand from freezing when about to > go > > for the big tremolo solo... > > Best > > Robin > > > > On Sat, May 23, 2009 at 5:48 AM, MinnesotaMandolin <[email protected] > >wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'll take a stab here, my band also uses all pickups. This is a wordy > > > post, though. > > > > > First off, I'm not sure if your issues were feedback or just a general > > > bad sound at high volume. Your post seems like it was of the general > > > bad sound variety. I'll offer a few tips. If you already know this > > > stuff I trust you'll forgive the repitition. > > > > > * The Room. What type of space are you playing in? When it's empty, > > > does it have a lot of natural reverb or is it kinda dead? A reverby > > > room should sound real nice with some bodies in it and you can tell > > > from the stage. A dead room (or a dead stage) can be harder because > > > you can't hear the PA as clearly. > > > > > *Control. Who's in control of the PA? If it's one of you guys, then > > > you can try different things. If it's somebody else, then hopefully > > > they're open to suggestions. If it is one of you guys, whichever one > > > it is needs to get a long cable so he can go out in front of the band > > > and listen while playing. That's important, because it lets you adjust > > > the overall sound of everybody and it keeps you in the mix so the rest > > > of the band plays "right" while you're offstage listening. I'm not the > > > main singer so it was easy for me to do (and also how I got the job of > > > band sound guy in the first place). If the band sound guy is a main > > > singer I don't have any good suggestions (take the mic onto the floor, > > > maybe?) > > > > > *House vs. stage. Did your gig sound good to the crowd? If it just > > > sounded bad to you guys then you got the big issue dealt with. > > > Amplifying yourself onstage, with pickups, especially if you rehearse > > > acoustic, can be a confusing auditory experience. But if it didn't > > > sound good to anyone then you indeed have to "take action." A good > > > help here can be a musician buddy, somebody whose ears you trust. Buy > > > him a beer and ask him to keep you appraised of what's happening out > > > there. Most musicians hate to see their friends sounding bad and will > > > gladly offer suggestions. > > > > > * Gain. Is everyone's "gain" adjusted appropriately? You want the gain > > > to be as high as it can get without clipping. Some PAs have a light > > > that will blink when the sound clips, others you just have to listen > > > for. If you're having trouble telling, turn the gain way up so you > > > know it's clipping--it should sound electric guitarish--then ease the > > > gain back until you know it isn't like that. You have to play your > > > intrument HARD when you do this check. I don't even play chords, I > > > just bang the open strings as hard as I can. My mandolin pickup (a > > > fishman M-200) is really "hot" and I generally have my gain at around > > > 10:00 (like on a clock) or 30%. My banjo player's pickup is about as > > > hot and his gain is a little higher, the guitarist and bassist are a > > > little lower and they're generally around 12 or 50%. > > > > > * Instrument EQ. My experience is that a good plugged-in sound at a > > > high volume will sound good at a low, but the opposite is not > > > necessarily true. For example, my mando sounds really nice at volume > > > level 2 or so eq'd flat, but even at a volume of 4, that eq setting > > > sounds awful. For my mando I generally eq with 0% low end, 20% mid and > > > 50% high end. The banjo is about the same. The guitar is around 30% > > > low, 50%mid and 50% high and the bass is pretty flat with a bit of low > > > end rolled off. > > > > > * Vocals EQ. In the rock'n'roll medium, vocals need to have the > > > midrange pushed to cut through the drums and distorted guitars. > > > Because of this, many vocal mics have the midrange already boosted and > > > sound tech advice is to boost the midrange on vocals. I don't think > > > this sounds right w/o drums or loud guitars. I've found in the string > > > band medium vocals sound pretty good with the mids and highs flat and > > > the low end rolled off a little bit. Because everyone's voice is > > > different, you do have tailor the eq settings. Especially at high > > > volumes, I find myself rolling back mids and pushing up trebles. > > > > > * Overall EQ. I eq the house in a "notched smile," which, assuming you > > > have a graphic eq, has the shape of a smiley face with a little bit of > > > the high-mids notched down a little lower. Sort of like a smile with a > > > gap for a cigaratte or something. > > > > > * Reverb. I don't like it and I don't use it. In my opinion you can't > > > hurt anything by cutting it and if you're having troubles, adding it > > > won't help. Having said that, I've heard some sound guys do some > > > really sweet, subtle things with reverb so use it if you like it. > > > > > * Volume. Soundcheck LOUD. It's intimidating to do in an empty room > > > because it seems so awkward but it's what you gotta do. Following what > > > I said about EQ, if you soundcheck loud and then don't get the crowd, > > > you can turn down and it should sound pretty good. You've discovered > > > what happens if you do the opposite. When you check, remember the > > > crowd is going to "soak up" a lot of the "blare and bounce" of the > > > empty room, particularly high-end instruments like mandolin and banjo. > > > So have courage with your mandolin being LOUD--once there's some > > > bodies in there it won't seem loud, it will seem BIG. My experience > > > has been that really nice sounding gigs had soundchecks that didn't > > > sound "really nice." I hate to bring up experience, but you do learn > > > what to listen for in an empty, bouncey room so that it will sound > > > right when it's full of people. > > > > > * Adjustments. If it seems like merely turning up the volume isn't > > > helping, I've done a couple different things. One is to turn up > > > everybodys' individual volumes a lot and turn down the master. I've > > > also done the opposite. It presents a different sonic picture. You can > > > also boost mid and treble to help instruments cut. If you have a > > > "presence" knob, that is an extremely useful tool. If your mando is > > > just blaring out of the speaking painfully, turn the presence down. If > > > it is audible but not clear, turn the presence up. It works for banjo > > > and guitar too, but not really for bass. Are you guys using monitors? > > > Try to avoid monitor wars, by which someone asks for more of > > > themselves, and now you can't hear you so you get more of you and > > > pretty soon everybody has turned up in the monitor and it sounds bad. > > > > > * Good enough. Ideally your gig should sound great. But if it's not > > > sounding great, my advice is to get it "good enough" and then deal > > > with it for 15 minutes. After that, I've found that one's ears adjust > > > to the sound and what at song #3 was maddening is, by song #8, good > > > enough. > > > > > Whew. That was long and probably too wordy. I hope this is helpful. > > > Feel free to follow up with any questions and I hope this is timely > > > enough to help you. > > > > > Have a good show! > > > > > erik > > > > > On May 22, 4:18 pm, Robin Gravina <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > I figure there are some experts out there so help please! We played > last > > > > night in a great artsy bar in the country with a music loving, > tatooed, > > > > hairy, middle aged audience and all went well, but we hit problems > with > > > the > > > > sound - great sound check in the empty bar, but as people got in and > > > started > > > > talking, just turning the thing up did not do us any favours - any > > > > suggestions? Should we lower the bass, boost the treble? Take off any > > > > reverb? Frankly I have no idea, but the same thing is going to > happen > > > > tomorrow unless we take action. As tomorrow is a bar frequented by > > > Spanish > > > > folk illuminati such as Kepa Junquera, I'd like to give a good > > > impression. > > > > > > We have our instruments through pickups, not microphones if that is > > > > important to know. Also I proudly want to boast that one person (an > > > English > > > > speaker) started singing along with a song of mine that had its world > > > > premiere that night. What a great feeling..yeeeeey! > > > > > > Thanks for any advice > > > > Robin- Hide quoted text - > > > > - Show quoted text - > > > --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Taterbugmando" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected] To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/taterbugmando?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
