There is a lot of ground being covered here that explains a lot of things WAY better than I could explain it. I am happy to see people able to express so many aspects of this topic, because it all hits home. I am sure that it comes as no surprise that I have been less than cordial on occasion, and I am not proud of being short in my answers. But at least some of the reasons have been addressed here. Thanks for being able to see so much and speak out.
At the Mon Camp this year Jody Stecher suggested to one class that they were "second-rate music thieves". He said he had been concerned about this comment because there were a number of folks who looked alarmed. He also told another class (one I taught with him) very adamantly to not be boring musicians. Same subject, seems to me. Now, at first glance, it may appear that Jody was being less than gracious, but he told me that he had just gotten through reading a book about the history of music or how music was ruined or some such thing. He said that he was sure there were at least 50 copies of it sold nationwide and that he just happened to be one of the few who bought the book. But his comment about being second-rate music thieves was based on something he read in the book, which was the suggestion that we should all be first-rate music thieves instead. So, not having read the book, a number of the people in his class misunderstood not only the remark, but also his intent, which actually was to try and inspire the students to do better. On an earlier note, I have a DVD here of Jascha Heifetz doing a master class with a few budding violinists. It would truly be hard to find someone who seemed more annoyed and bored by the whole process. Though I will have to say, it's funny to watch. Taterbug On Oct 6, 8:00 pm, mistertaterbug <[email protected]> wrote: > Very good observations/comments, Tud. Hit it on the head, did you? > Taterbug > > On Oct 6, 10:45 am, Tud Jones <[email protected]> wrote: > > > A couple of thoughts... > > > As to teaching and workshops, a successful teacher needs to have > > good people skills . Teaching is, in my opinion, an extension of the > > entertainment biz. I think that in reality, teaching can be as much > > about counseling, listening and entertaining as it is about real > > education. Some musicians are good at it and others are not so good. > > I think really good teaching is as much about getting someone > > interested and inspired enough to learn on their own as it is to show > > off a particular tune or lick. Sometimes a musician can do that at a > > workshop just by hanging around and being a good person. That is what > > people will remember over the long term...who was nice and who was > > not. Life is tough being a full time musician. Teaching can be a > > lucrative sideline to performance so some might be drawn into it due > > to the pure economic necessity rather than having a call to teach. > > Hopefully students have the good fortune to cross paths with musicians > > who want to teach. In the end, we all have the power to vote with our > > wallets. > > That being said, I'm of the opinion that you can't teach real > > bluegrass. While there are lots of books, DVDs lessons, workshops they > > don't turn out skilled bluegrass musicians. If you really want to do > > it, no workshop will help. Only time and hard work, listening, > > practice etc will get you there. Then if you start to be able to make > > that bluegrass noise, you can get a job with a real band or have the > > skills to get in with the real players. That is where the next level > > of education happens. At that point, it is more about honing your > > craft. If you have to ask how to do it, you don't know it and probably > > won't get it. > > > On Oct 6, 9:51 am, Bill Burnette <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > Hmmm, I stated "based on my one experience, I'm not a fan..." I think that > > > indicates that what is to follow is an opinion based on a first impression > > > from what I observed. At least that was my intent. > > > > Bill > > > > On Tue, Oct 6, 2009 at 9:25 AM, David Long <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > Bill, > > > > You have to admit, your comment was more of an assertion rather than an > > > > observation. By all means, deny yourself David's music. It just > > > > leaves an > > > > extra seat for those of us who can see beyond these sorts of things. > > > > > Miles > > > > > On Tue, Oct 6, 2009 at 9:11 AM, Bill Burnette <[email protected]> > > > > wrote: > > > > >> The experience I shared was admittedly a first impression. If I got to > > > >> know David like you do Mike, my opinion might be changed. My comments > > > >> were > > > >> made on the heels of the thread about various people's experiences with > > > >> Ricky Skaggs, and my one and only experience with David was much the > > > >> same as > > > >> many of those relayed in that thread. It was not an interpretation of > > > >> an > > > >> answer to one question, it was an observation of the general demeanor > > > >> of one > > > >> person in contrast to several other people in the same arena. David > > > >> may be > > > >> the greatest person on the planet once you get to know him- but on that > > > >> particular day, I did not come away with that impression. And yes, > > > >> were we > > > >> in a one on one or small group situation, and David, or anyone else, > > > >> reacted > > > >> to me or someone else in the group in that manner, I would inquire as > > > >> to who > > > >> crapped in their cornflakes that morning. I certainly don't think that > > > >> I > > > >> have held anyone up to ridicule- I simply relayed a personal > > > >> experience. You > > > >> and others have different experiences- I'm genuinely glad to hear that. > > > >> Maybe we'll meet someday and become big buddies. > > > > >> Bill > > > > >> On Tue, Oct 6, 2009 at 8:04 AM, mistertaterbug > > > >> <[email protected]>wrote: > > > > >>> Agreed. But without knowing what was going on with everyone there, > > > >>> energy levels, mental state, blah, blah, blah, including David Grier, > > > >>> it would be impossible to make a fair call. Could be that your > > > >>> interpretation of his answer was not entirely accurate, maybe so. But > > > >>> I'm sure you wouldn't be willing to say anything here that you > > > >>> wouldn't be willing to say to David, right? Some people are an > > > >>> acquired taste. Monroe was for me. Some people have to taken with a > > > >>> grain of salt. Some are blunt and to the point. I think that you might > > > >>> spend some time researching the subject. For example, if I took your > > > >>> word at face value, then I would not know the other side of David > > > >>> Grier, the side you apparently have not seen. By the same token, I'd > > > >>> have to assume that you yourself are actually an "expert" in computer > > > >>> networking without doing any research on my own to find out if that is > > > >>> the case. > > > > >>> You are certainly free to like/dislike whomever you wish. David is > > > >>> known for being straight to the point. He is also known to be one of > > > >>> the most unique and talented musicians on the planet. If you find him > > > >>> to be intolerable, that's your business. Apparently you are in the > > > >>> minority considering the numbers that come to hear him do what he > > > >>> does. He is understood by all the people you named on the panel and he > > > >>> commands their respect. I have known Grier for a long time and I > > > >>> suggest to you that you might look deeper at the individual you > > > >>> ridicule. Or not, it's not up to me to make excuses for the man. > > > > >>> Glad to hear your team of techs is polite. I run into all sorts of > > > >>> people that don't give a damn about their jobs or customer relations, > > > >>> nor do they know much about what they're selling. > > > > >>> Bibs > > > > >>> On Oct 6, 6:34 am, Bill Burnette <[email protected]> wrote: > > > >>> > Mike, > > > >>> > I'm sure David is a very bright individual. He's also very talented > > > >>> > and > > > >>> > accomplished. I don't see how that excuses the behavior that I > > > >>> witnessed. > > > >>> > People who attend workshops are seeking to gain some insight or > > > >>> > learn > > > >>> > something from the people on the panel. By agreeing to participate > > > >>> > in > > > >>> the > > > >>> > panel, one might think those folks are willing to impart something > > > >>> > that > > > >>> > could possibly be of help to the people attending, so I can't > > > >>> understand > > > >>> > acting like the questions that are asked of them are stupid or an > > > >>> > imposition. I am an expert in computers and networking and manage a > > > >>> team of > > > >>> > techs who support people who are not experts in those areas. If any > > > >>> > of > > > >>> us > > > >>> > acted like people were stupid for seeking help with their computer > > > >>> problems, > > > >>> > we would be fired- and we would deserve to be. We might think some > > > >>> > of > > > >>> their > > > >>> > questions are stupid- but we don't let it show. That would just be > > > >>> > rude > > > >>> and > > > >>> > inappropriate. > > > > >>> > Bill > > > > >>> > On Mon, Oct 5, 2009 at 10:53 PM, mistertaterbug < > > > >>> [email protected]>wrote: > > > > >>> > > Bill, > > > >>> > > You might do a little thinking on the kinds of questions that are > > > >>> > > asked in workshops and to whom they're asked. The persons you have > > > >>> > > named all have spent years learning how to do what they do. Most > > > >>> > > of > > > >>> > > the folks you named don't do a lot of workshops because they don't > > > >>> > > have to. Some to them need the extra income. Some enjoy them, some > > > >>> > > don't. Workshops are really variable depending on skills levels > > > >>> > > present, personalities, group size, whether the participants know > > > >>> each > > > >>> > > other or not, you name it. > > > > >>> > > David Grier is a very bright individual who has a low tolerance > > > >>> > > for > > > >>> > > folks who seek the answers without putting in the time and work he > > > >>> > > did. I have no idea what the question was, nor do I need to know. > > > >>> > > But > > > >>> > > I do know David to be ultimately fair and accommodating with > > > >>> > > people > > > >>> > > who are making an effort to be responsible for their own progress > > > >>> > > instead of looking for shortcuts to flash and dash. > > > > >>> > > Tbugs > > > > >>> > > On Oct 1, 12:46 pm, Bill Burnette <[email protected]> wrote: > > > >>> > > > I have to say based on my one experience, I'm not a fan of David > > > >>> Grier > > > >>> > > the > > > >>> > > > man. I attended a workshop at IBMA a couple of years ago and he > > > >>> acted > > > >>> > > like > > > >>> > > > it was the last place he wanted to be. Whenever someone asked > > > >>> > > > him a > > > >>> > > > question, he acted like it was the stupidest question he'd ever > > > >>> heard. > > > >>> > > Other > > > >>> > > > members of the panel, Bryan Sutton, Robert Bolin and Tim May on > > > >>> > > > the > > > >>> other > > > >>> > > > hand, were all very gracious and patient with the audience. Skip > > > >>> > > > Cherryholmes was also on the panel and by his own admission was > > > >>> > > > not > > > >>> in > > > >>> > > the > > > >>> > > > same league as a picker with the others, and several times > > > >>> > > > during > > > >>> his > > > >>> > > solos > > > >>> > > > David would cut him a look and roll his eyes. Based on that > > > >>> experience I > > > >>> > > > wouldn't pay $1 to see or hear him play. I also attended the > > > >>> mandolin > > > >>> > > > workshop and found Adam Steffey, Emory Lester, Danny Roberts and > > > >>> Sierra > > > >>> > > Hull > > > >>> > > > to be very gracious and accessible as well, so David really > > > >>> > > > stood > > > >>> out in > > > >>> > > > contrast. > > > > >>> > > > Bill in Nashville > > > > >>> > > > On Thu, Oct 1, 2009 at 12:25 PM, malagrass < > > > >>> [email protected]> > > > >>> > > wrote: > > > > >>> > > > > Man, you gotta love these guy's. David's non PC explanation of > > > >>> > > > > "listening" and how how many writers of tab are not > > ... > > read more » --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Taterbugmando" group. 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