TEACHSOC: Re: 8:00 Classes and learning

[Del Thomas Ph. D.]

I recall that some of my profs back at Bucknell were pleased when I was late or absent.  At times I was asked to reduce my questions and give others a chance.  After a few class sessions of quiet I started again until asked again to shut up. I placed no more value on school policies then than I do now. I learned that they were there for the school not the participants.  On a visit a few years after graduation.  One of my profs said that they weren't ready for my kind when I was there....   Still no refund :-) I avoid the use of texts, lectures and points systems.  It is a fiction to suggest that you can usefully measure participation in a teacher/preacher lecture hall of 40  or 60 students.   Using small groups you don't have to measure  it.  I would also eliminate grades if I could.  A school without grades is like a community without racism.  I have students submit learning statements.... that determine their grades.....  you have shown the school the money ...     now show yourself and me the learning. Rewards are varied.  I have found that applause from classmates is more powerful than points and easier to calculate :-) I find some policies curious even darkly amusing.  A student with a attendance record poor enough to be penalized earns a C or  B has their grade reduced as a penalty.   The students learning stays the same.  If attendance was a factor the learning would have been a B or A..... they have already been penalized...   Over the last decade these classroom management issues have become hardy perennials on the list.  The dominant response is punishment, justified by "the students made me do it"  punishment -r is defined as an s that increases the response it follows when removed.  I guess that 's why these issues are perennials. Nearly all of the analysis of these issues which appear to be social is non sociological.  Surprising? IMHO some things to consider as far as learning is concerned 1. No mater what we call them most students are teens...... with teen body clocks set at teen standard time. 2. No mater what our position on the mater customer service is real  and has consequences. 3.  Most teacher/preacher approaches are mechanical and based on adoptive learning of crisp content..... when we are preparing students      to solve problems and perform tasks that  may not exist until after their graduation.  Many of the curiculla I have seen are so mechanical      that they resemble Rube Goldberg contraptions.  The brain is organic...... learning is organic.... 4. Size matters.  The teacher/preacher approach in a class > 25 has a whole uncharted set of learning consequences. 5. The most used forms of learning are passive and weak compared to unintended  or feral learning.  For example, Seligman found that 30% of the untrained dogs had learned helplessness. 6. We use instructional materials that are for the most part untested on teen populations.  Has pedagogy been tested on this teen population? 7. Limited discussion of the one suggestion of taking the role of the other (Moms in class). There is more. You can see I haven't changed from my Bucknell days, still asking lots of stupid questions. Del Kathleen McKinney wrote: We basically have two "policies" related to attendance...the first, in the student handbook, is a statement simply that students are expected to attend class. The second, in faculty policy is a statement about how faculty must give reasonable accommodation to students missing class for legitimate university business and religious holidays (actually, it might be two separate statements). k At 07:49 AM 2/2/2006, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:  First, let me say that this whole discussion of student attendance is extremely interesting and helpful.    I was wondering if all schools or some schools have an attendance policy, if yes, then how profs deal with this, if no, then do profs make such individual policies/decisions?  e.g.: Jay, does your school have an attendance policy?    Thanks, Anna Karpathakis Kingsborough C.C., CUNY   -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Teaching Sociology <teachsoc@googlegroups.com> Sent: Thu, 02 Feb 2006 05:38:32 -0800 Subject: TEACHSOC: Re: 8:00 Classes I frame attendance, lateness, and participation as matters of learning and courtesy.  I do not think of them in terms of training for future jobs.  If a student can learn everything in the course without ever coming to class, aces the paper and exams, the student gets an A.  I think that as a matter of courtesy, students have obligations to the course as they would to other interactions -- to be present, to listen and respond, etc.  But I think grades should be about intellectual performance, so I'm reluctant to use academic sanctions (grades) to enforce social norms. Using absences to knock down students' grades also puts the professor into the position of making moral distinctions among reasons for absence or lateness, an exercise I prefer to avoid especially since the policy gives rise to questions of honesty and verification.  I don't want to see notes from the doctor about their physical ailments or notes from the undertaker about their grandmother's funeral or notes from the mechanic about their wheel bearings. I am also baffled as to how one might quantify these more social aspects of the course.  Students have told me of courses where the professor says something like, "Participation counts for 15% of your grade," and I always wonder how professors decides how many points to award for this or that student comment.   Do they go back to their offices immediately after class and score each student comment as they remember it?  Or do they, at the end of the semester, give a number based on their overall impression? However, like Marty, I will use attendance and participation when scores on exams and papers puts a student's final grade on the cusp. Jay Livingston Montclair State College Kathleen McKinney Cross Endowed Chair in the Scholarship of Teaching and Learning Professor, Sociology Carnegie Scholar Box 6370 Illinois State University Normal, Il 61790-6370 off 309-438-7706 fax 309-438-8788 [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.ilstu.edu/~kmckinne/