TEACHSOC: Re: List of Sociology Journals

[Michael Johnston]

Dear Mike,   I like your question: Is struggling through a scholarly article a meaningful learning experience?  I thought Mikaila’s answer is brilliant.  I could add quite a bit, but for now I will confine myself to a single paragraph that engages your question in light of my original comments, namely the use of sociology journal articles in stats and methods classes.    Yes, students found it to be meaningful in that they told me it was meaningful after they finished the final exam.  I had set up the final so that it consisted of tables of statistical output from real journal articles and students did a very good job of interpreting the output, they knew it, and they felt that the learning they experienced was meaningful.  It was also meaningful in that, if students are in a job interview or working in a work team in the future, and they are asked if they are able to interpret statistical output, that they can say with confidence – yes, I’ve done this before and I know how to do it.  So, it would be meaningful to their employers and co-workers, especially because so many social science majors lack the fundamentals of quantitative literacy.  There is a caveat though, they did not feel it was meaningful while they were actually struggling and there was quite a bit of complaining during the process.  This was relieved considerably when I played in class a recording of Dr. Martin Luther King in which he spoke about his experience as a sociology major and the difficulties he experienced in statistics!   I’m hoping we can meet up at the California Sociological Association or the Pacific Sociological Association annual meetings and continue this discussion in person.  I’ve found your pot-stirring comments to be quite stimulating.   I’m going to respond to your other question, the one about measuring student learning, within a matter of days.   Best wishes, Michael         <splice from email addressed, full text of message follows> From my perspective, all of the issues that I and others have raised are empirical issues--empirical issues that haven't really been addressed, let alone resolved, by sociologists who study teaching. Michael mentioned, for instance, that his students "learned quite a bit" and "learned tremendously." I'm not doubting that they did; I'm just wondering how we're measuring learning and whether we can be so sure of ourselves. Shouldn't we start to empirically examine some of the positions that we've taken for granted for so long--like that struggling through a scholarly article is a meaningful learning experience, for example?       -----Original Message----- From: teachsoc@googlegroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Michael DeCesare Sent: Saturday, May 13, 2006 10:41 PM To: teachsoc@googlegroups.com Subject: TEACHSOC: Re: List of Sociology Journals   Thanks to everyone who responded to my questions. I want to make a few points of clarification.   I probably should've mentioned that the readers I put together for my courses include both journal articles and book chapters. So it's not that I don't use articles from sociological journals--it's that I'm finding it more and more difficult to justify making students plod through them, as I said in my original post.   Second, I fully realize, as Kathleen pointed out, that not all articles are empirical and that not all empirical articles are quantitative. My intention wasn't to debate the merits of quantitative versus qualitative approaches. Regardless of whether an article is empirical, or primarily quantitative or qualitative, my question was only whether there were really that many articles out there that folks thought important enough to expose our students to.   Frankly, I'm not at all convinced by many of the responses that people offered, namely: that reading journal articles helps students understand the "systematic application of sociological concepts, theories, issues, and concerns"; that scholarly journal articles are the major way--or even one major way--of making our research public; that we should hold up our journal articles as a model for how students' own papers should be written and organized; that we should use articles to help students learn to deal with the frustration of understanding only pieces of what they read; or that the struggle to understand journal articles can be a useful experience.   I think what I'm least convinced by, though, is the argument that making students read journal articles will help socialize them into the discipline. Should this even be our goal at the undergraduate level--to socialize students into sociology as a discipline? Or should it be to help them understand what the sociological perspective offers? I think there's a huge difference between the two approaches. "Forcing" students to read and think about the issues raised in a journal article, in my opinion, is very different from socializing them into the discipline. Are we teaching/training undergraduates or graduate students? I think our content and objectives depend upon our answers to that question. Most of my students, for instance, can't tell me what sociology is or how it differs from the other social sciences. And these are junior and senior sociology majors. Are journal articles really going to help them clarify things? I don't believe they will.   From my perspective, all of the issues that I and others have raised are empirical issues--empirical issues that haven't really been addressed, let alone resolved, by sociologists who study teaching. Michael mentioned, for instance, that his students "learned quite a bit" and "learned tremendously." I'm not doubting that they did; I'm just wondering how we're measuring learning and whether we can be so sure of ourselves. Shouldn't we start to empirically examine some of the positions that we've taken for granted for so long--like that struggling through a scholarly article is a meaningful learning experience, for example?   All of this notwithstanding, thanks again, folks. As always, your comments have been helpful as I continue to rethink and clarify my own positions on the teaching of our discipline.   Best,   Mike *********************** Michael DeCesare California State University, Northridge Department of Sociology 336 Santa Susana Hall 18111 Nordhoff Street Northridge, CA 91330-8318 818.677.7198 818.677.2059 (Fax) [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.csun.edu/~mdecesare ----- Original Message ----- From: Michael DeCesare To: teachsoc@googlegroups.com Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2006 8:46 AM Subject: Re: TEACHSOC: List of Sociology Journals   Hi everyone,   I think John raises some valid and interesting issues. Among other things, he asked about the proportion of articles we can expect students to understand. I'd like to add another, related question: Is it important for students to even read the articles that appear in our journals?   It seems to me that there's a reasonable case to be made that much of the work that's published in our journals--and not just the top-tier ones--is not only incomprehensible to people who aren't thoroughly trained in statistics, as John pointed out, but is also perceived to be trivial and/or irrelevant to lots of sociologists. So why is it important for our undergraduates to read the latest ASR, AJS, or Social Forces articles--especially when not many of us even read them?   I ask because aside from using them to teach students the differences between scholarly and non-scholarly work, it's increasingly difficult for me to justify requiring students to read the latest and greatest articles from our discipline's journals.   Stirring the pot,   Mike! ****************************** Michael DeCesare California State University, Northridge Department of Sociology 336 Santa Susana Hall 18111 Nordhoff Street Northridge, CA 91330-8318 818.677.7198 818.677.2059 (Fax) [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.csun.edu/~mdecesare ----- Original Message ----- From: John Glass To: teachsoc@googlegroups.com Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2006 8:26 AM Subject: TEACHSOC: List of Sociology Journals   just curious...has anyone ever asked students about whether or not they understand journal articles? i think it is an unwarranted assumption that directing students to journals is going to assist them in learning material within our discipline. let's face it, how many of the articles can we expect undergraduates to understand given the increasing complexity of statistical analyses? how many do WE understand? and we expect students to use current research to write term papers?   i have asked students to pick a journal article, read it, rate their level of undertanding (likert scale of 1 - 5) and then discuss what they DID understand and what they DIDN'T understand. it was an interesting assignment...for me. has made me reconsider things like "research" papers.   something to think about?   john   John E. Glass, Ph.D. Professor of Sociology Division of Social & Behavioral Sciences Colin County Community College Preston Ridge Campus 9700 Wade Boulevard Frisco, TX 75035 +1-972-377-1622 http://iws.ccccd.edu/jglass/ [EMAIL PROTECTED]   "We are more concerned about the discovery of knowledge than with its dissemination" B. F. Skinner --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Teaching Sociology" group. To post to this group, send email to teachsoc@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/teachsoc -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---