TEACHSOC: Re: An e-mail from a student...

[Jack Estes]

 Wow. This has been a hot and interesting issue. I read all the responses with great concern. My initial response - I was the first, actually - was that nothing should be said to the student unless it were done with great care. Michael, privately, disagreed with me passionately. As I read the rest of the posts, I believe most others disagreed as well. Still, I'm not convinced I would handle it any differently.   As a former English teacher, and as the director of the Writing Across the Curriculum program on our campus, I'm definitely aware of the problems of grammar and mechanics. l'm also a book publisher and I find dozens of grammatical problems PER PAGE on some of the best books I've had submitted. I'm very concerned about how to respond to such issues. One of the ways I've always thought about writing is sort of based on the Peter Elbow approach: we have a free and creative side, and we have a careful and critical side. A Superego and Id, you could say. One fried referred to this as a madman and a critic. I find students fail my classes by NOT turning in papers. Doesn't that happen to you? My students don't fail by submitting their work. I give them chances to rewrite their papers, to go get help, anything. Just get that paper in.   Why don't they turn in their papers when they KNOW their grades are dependent on these papers. I contend that one of the main reasons is that they are afraid of their writing. So how did they get this far, as one respondent asked. Shouldn't they have been stopped in junior high, or high school? Maybe, but it didn't happen. So here they are. And I want to give them a sense of the joy of writing, the joy of expressing themselves, the joy of discovery that is attained through their writing. I don't want to be another finger waving in their faces saying how wrong they are. I want to be a positive force, encouraging them to write write write.   I teach at a large urban community college where the writing is really weak, in general. Maybe that's an issue. I practically BEG students to just relax and write, to give me their ideas on paper, to get things DOWN first, then, if it's a formal assignment, to polish and polish. Often they don't get to that final step. That's unfortunate. And sometimes when that happens, I give them a lower grade than they're used to. We talk about it. The diligent ones rewrite and do better. The others don't.   I still believe that most of the responses have been too harsh. Most of us are privileged in our positions, and most of us are decent writers. As least in terms of basic mechanics. I want to attract my students to this wonderful means of _expression_. If they're excited about it, and not worried about being attacked for every comma splice, I believe they will be more likely to continue to write.   Tough question. Hope I didn't kill it.   Jack Estes BMCC/CUNY NYC           ----- Original Message ----- From: Eric Godfrey To: Michael Klausner ; Teaching Sociology List Sent: Friday, May 19, 2006 5:17 PM Subject: TEACHSOC: Re: An e-mail from a student... Were I still teaching, I would have replied to the student's e-mail with a revised version titled "This would have been much more appropriate" (it was short enough to not make doing that much of a burden). I'd have added a short note with a social-psychological thrust to the effect that the way the one presents oneself to others lays a foundation for their inductive conclusions about the kind of person we are (of course I wouldn't put it that way), yes, even a short, informal e-mail. Michael, you were certainly not too hard on the student, and in fact would have been remiss in your duty as an educator to let it go uncorrected (for reasons well stated by others in this thread).  Though I will confess not correcting every e-mail message whose saluation read "Hey, Professor" over the last few years (what's with "Hey," anyway? - seems to have spread rapidly). --- Eric Michael Klausner wrote at 11:54 AM on 19 May 2006: Sarah, you said it better than I could have. I don’t think we are being “helpful” to students who communicate that way by just ignoring it. One can be compassionate, empathic and kind and STILL set the student straight on that matter. Excellent written and verbal communication skills are more important than learning any particular discipline, I think. Furthermore, I think it is being “cruel” to students if we allow such type of communication without making firm suggestions for improvement and indicating why such communication is inappropriate. From: Sarah Murray [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, May 19, 2006 12:41 PM To: Michael Klausner Subject: Re: TEACHSOC: An e-mail from a student... My belief is that this is not appropriate communication under any circumstances, with any living creature, or inanimate object for that matter.  I would tell the student that his/her future success academically, professionally and interpersonally is very much contingent on effective communication, and that you could refer him/her to resources that would help in that vein (books, on-campus services, your re-writing of the e-mail, anything.). Be supportive, concerned, heart felt -- but let the student know that continuing to communicate in that style would be detrimental to his/her future in every way.  You are worried -- not judgmental. ----- Original Message ----- From: Michael Klausner To: teachsoc@googlegroups.com Sent: Friday, May 19, 2006 12:14 PM Subject: TEACHSOC: An e-mail from a student... I received this e-mail from a student who was in my class last term. I replied that the horrendous punctuation, grammar, spelling was not appropriate when communicating with anyone except friends, perhaps. Even then, it would not be appropriate. Should I have been “harder”, “easier” on him? Comments welcome you were right when u said u wanted to see me again ahaha.. i was wonderign when ur classes were for fall semester so i can see if i can retake ur class.. get back to me when you can                                          sincerly, -- * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * NOTE: If e-mail to me is rejected or not answered promptly, please re-send to my other e-mail addresses: [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Eric P. Godfrey, Professor Emeritus of Sociology Ripon College, P. O. Box 248 (mail), 300 Seward St. (courier) Ripon, Wisconsin 54971-0248 920.748.6789 (home) Home US Mail: P. O. Box 75, Ripon, WI 54971-0075 "Save the earth, we don't have a backup copy" (made up by my son Forest at age 16) * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Teaching Sociology" group. To post to this group, send email to teachsoc@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/teachsoc -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---