> From: "Theo de Raadt" <[email protected]>
> Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2022 10:02:40 -0700
> 
> An OpenBSD machine only has one OpenBSD install.

I have to disagree here.  Not everyone has a pile of test machines
lying around.  

> As soon as we leave that model, and allow other setup models, perhaps you
> think there will be two or three potential configurations that people setup.
> 
> I don't think so, I think it will keep being extended by people who do
> more and more scewed up bizzare configurations, all of which (obviously, to
> you) will need to be supported, and everything gets more complicated.
> 
> I think we should say "STOP". Now.  And not start down that roadmap.
> 
> You built something for a testlab.  Your conclusion is that it should
> work for everyone.  I simply cannot come to the same conclusion,
> because it requires complexity, but instead I think we should embrace
> simplicity even if it limits choice.

Well, that is the real question: will this increase complexity?  We
currently have code that makes what I'd describe as an "educated
guess" at what is the OpenBSD root disk of a machine.  If we can
replace that with something that finds the disk based on its DUID,
that would make things more robust and might even decrease complexity
in the installer.

That said, I don't immediately see how this would work and how the
sysctl's would help.  So it would be good if Klemens showed us the
complete picture.


> Klemens Nanni <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> > On Mon, Nov 14, 2022 at 07:49:11AM -0700, Theo de Raadt wrote:
> > > Klemens Nanni <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > 
> > > > This is because the installer always considers the first root disk it
> > > > finds as the one to upgrade, which is certainly not what I intend or
> > > > expect when booting/upgrading the softraid installation on sd1-3.
> > > 
> > > What does
> > > 
> > >      first root disk
> > > 
> > > Mean?
> > 
> > One machine with two phsyical disks, say one NVMe and regular SSD.
> > Both disks contain a standalone OpenBSD installation.
> > 
> > I consider each of them a root disk.
> > 
> > > 
> > > There is only one root disk.  The root disk is the one that actually 
> > > contains
> > > the / that is mounted.
> > > 
> > > It is this one:
> > > 
> > > root on sd0a (fb786f6b01042b30.a) swap on sd0b dump on sd0b
> > > 
> > > You cannot change this.  If you use the bootloader to tell the kernel do
> > > do something else, then I argue that sysupgrade and the installer should
> > > punish you unless you *manually tell it that every time*
> > 
> > I don't set anything in /etc/boot.conf or the boot> prompt.
> > 
> > I select the disk to boot from in the UEFI boot manager.
> > 
> > > 
> > > The install script knows what the root filesystem is using very simple
> > > heuristics, but by creating two new sysctl, I am afraid you will enrich
> > > this ability to support bizzare configurations that did not work, and
> > > I argue *should never work*.
> > > 
> > > > It is probably not that common to have multiple installations/root disks
> > > > in one machine, but it isn't "weird" to me, either.
> > > 
> > > What?  It is not weird
> > > 
> > > I think this is unsupported bullshit.
> > > 
> > > Why do we need the install script to support this configuration you
> > > created?  Why do we need to encourage other people to have such
> > > configurations?  When they create such a configuration, and find the
> > > tooling can support it, won't they go and do even stranger things, then
> > > find the tooling doesn't support that even-stranger setup, and then
> > > you'll come back adding support for increasingly strange setups, and
> > > eventually we are going to end up with a large userbase *not using* a
> > > single root filesystem?
> > > 
> > > > Overwriting the wrong system during an upgrade because the installer
> > > > makes too big of an assumption about the first disk is weird to me.
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > I can post console logs later showing how the installer picks the wrong
> > > > disk, if you want.
> > > 
> > > There is only one possible root filesystem.
> > > 
> > > If you created multiple root filesystems, you have created a mess and
> > > why is it wrong for me to argue you need to experience pain for the
> > > decisions that led you there?
> > > 
> > > I do not think you are being honest about the reason for these extensions.
> > > 
> > 
> > I'm pretty honest, but apparently not precise enough.
> > 
> > Now that all the softraid/installboot diffs landed and the dust has
> > settled, let me iterate over and test my setup again to make sure I'm
> > not tripping over my own mistakes.
> > 
> > Then I can come back with a clear update or reproducer.
> > 
> 

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