Helo Dane I'm not accusing you of making anything up. That isn't what I said at all; so I honestly don't know where on earth you get that from.
What I said, and it isn't aimed at any specific person, is that I don't want to allow personal bias or preferences to influence the content of the study. I take the comment onboard. Neither am I saying you're wrong about accessibility, so where do you get that from? I can only comment on Thunderbird by saying that on the occasion where he tried it a few weeks back, Gordon didn't have a lot of luck with the thing using Window-Eyes 7.5.0. He hasn't tried it with 7.5.51. As for your comments regarding "Standard controls", what does that mean? As I understand it, most apps use control elements defined in MS's compilers so they should be pretty much the norm. There are two exceptions I am told which use what seem to be referred too as "Non-Windows controls". One of which is SAM Broadcaster. I can't remember what the other one was but I'll ask Peter when I next speak to him. So please don't make this a personal thing. And please don't put words into my mouth. :) What I said was that I don't want to allow personal bias to impact on the results of the study. If it should be that Thunderbird isn't accessible using Window-Eyes, that's fine, I have no problem with that. But not long ago when we contacted GW Micro directly to find out which client they recommended under Windows 7, that one was top of their list. Second was Windows Mail version 15 which is part of the Windows Live suite. Lynne On 3 Sep 2011, at 12:55, Dane Trethowan wrote: Take it or leave it but I can bouch for what I'm saying. With the latest TB6 whatever the version number is now WE isn't accessible with that software, GW Micro are aware of the problem and plan to fix the issue in the next update of WE so there we are! that's been published on the GW Micro mailing list about half a dozen times in response to question other WE users have had, GW Micro suggest that Thunderbird users roll back the version of Thunderbird to 3.1. Now there are ways of course round the problem which seems to have something to do with browse mode, you but that only seems to work half of the time so its just much easier having NVDA on hand. Regardless of all this though, GW Micro should be ashamed of themselves, Thunderbird uses pretty much standard controls which can be accessed by Screen Readers. I know a blind person here who sells JAWS as part of his job, I wondered whether JAWS could access the latest TB so I asked the person I know for an explanation, he told me that if you make some adjustments to TB then everything works fine which is about what I'd expect. So no, sorry Lynne, I'm not making it up when I say that WE isn't accessible with the latest TB version, not only do subscribers to the gw-info list tell a similar tale but both my PC's relate the same sorry saga. On 3/09/2011 9:46 PM, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote: > Hello Dane > > Your point about Thunderbird would seem to be in direct contradiction to that > which others have made elsewhere. Just as the point that whoever it was made > about the AppleTV is in contradiction to what we know to be the truth. In > fact according to GW Micro, Thunderbird is their client of choice for > Window-Eyes 7.5 users running Windows 7. Why then would they not interact > together? I don't really want to start getting mixed up in too many third > party observations and, worse yet, opinions. By that I mean some of the > garbage that's floating around in the clearly very polarised communities. > There are those, for instance, who swear by Jaws and won't use anything else. > There are those who, to the contrary, swear by WE and wo't use anything else. > I'm sure the same is true of System Access, NVDA and even HAL. And that > doesn't even take into account those utilities such as Zoom and SuperNova. > > The core of this study will be the generics, not the specifics. In other > words, I'm not looking to concentrate too much on specific applications so, > whilst Thunderbird will probably get a mention after testing of some sorts, I > won't be spending hours on trying to find out which screen-reader works > better than which with it on a specific basis. > > Personal opinion plays a big part in what is "best", and I don't want to get > bobbed down with that. I'm only interested in what works, not what's > preferred by individual users. I take the comment onboard, and appreciate it; > but I can't allow personal bias one way or the other to influence the final > analysis. > > Lynne > > > On 3 Sep 2011, at 12:32, Dane Trethowan wrote: > > David makes a good point and that is that NVDA is often more accessible with > software than is JAWS or - believe it or not - Dindow-Eyes and these things > are incredibly surprising, what if I told you that Window-Eyes and the latest > version of Thunderbird email client didn't get along? Well fact is they > don't, from all accounts JAWS seems to work okay with TB and certainly NVDA > does and always has done - how else could I write this message<smile>. > > > > > ======================================= > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus > and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web > pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at > either of the following websites: > > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > Or: > <http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]> > you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: > <http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/maillist.xml> > > --------------------------------------- -- Dane Trethowan Sending email from his EEEPC Netbook ======================================= The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html Or: <http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]> you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: <http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/maillist.xml> --------------------------------------- ======================================= The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html Or: <http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]> you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: <http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/maillist.xml> ---------------------------------------
