texascavers Digest 2 Sep 2009 02:24:04 -0000 Issue 844
Topics (messages 11975 through 11984):
Re: Big-Brother related
11975 by: Nico Escamilla
11978 by: Fritz Holt
Re: Big Brother
11976 by: John P Brooks
11977 by: Louise Power
11979 by: Katy Roodenko
11980 by: Quinta Wilkinson
11981 by: Mark Minton
11982 by: speleosteele.tx.rr.com
Re: Big-Brother : RFID
11983 by: Katy Roodenko
11984 by: wa5pok.peoplepc.com
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--- Begin Message ---
I get fingerprinted every time I go across the border and need to go beyond
20 miles inland into the states.
No big deal
Nico
On Tue, Sep 1, 2009 at 12:33 PM, Cynthia Lee <[email protected]> wrote:
> I was finger printed in 1975 when I went to work for UPS as a temp.
>
> Cindy
>
>
> On Tue, Sep 1, 2009 at 12:25 PM, Linda Palit <[email protected]>wrote:
>
>> Traditionally being fingerprinted was associated with being a criminal.
>>
>>
>> This view is sure to change as it becomes so common.
>>
>>
>>
>> Probably this is becoming way off topic, and I am not meeting the word
>> limits, so enough of this for me.
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Louise Power [mailto:[email protected]]
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, September 01, 2009 12:23 PM
>> *To:* [email protected]; Texas Cavers
>> *Subject:* RE: [Texascavers] Big-Brother related
>>
>>
>>
>> I'm a federal employee. My prints have been on file for years. I do not
>> find it humiliating or feel that my privacy has been invaded. Why were you
>> so humiliated? Our country has suffered some terrible blows in recent years
>> from people disguised as friends. I'm not sure where you're from, but how
>> does your country verify the identification of foreign nationals?
>>
>> Louise
>>
>> > Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2009 06:49:50 -0700
>> > From: [email protected]
>> > To: [email protected]
>> > Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Big-Brother related
>> >
>> > Hm,
>> >
>> > Can we (the foreigners who for whatever reason come to visit USA)
>> encrypt our fingerprints? I have never been to any as humiliating process as
>> this one: being taken my fingerprints at the US border.
>> >
>> > I guess it is really not the best way to make friends. I know many of my
>> friends in Europe who would not come to USA precisely for this reason.
>> >
>> > For whatever reasons, very recently, Texas Teachers were ordered to give
>> their fingerprints as well. I expected riots and protests - but they went
>> silently to gave up all their privacy as easily as that! What a KGB country
>> of obedient society who shouts loudly on privacy but really forgot what
>> "privacy" really means!
>> >
>> > Really, if I had a kid, I would not like it to be educated by these
>> teachers.
>> >
>> > Katy
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --- On Tue, 9/1/09, Don Cooper <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >
>> > > From: Don Cooper <[email protected]>
>> > > Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Big-Brother related
>> > > To: "Mixon Bill" <[email protected]>
>> > > Cc: "Cavers Texas" <[email protected]>
>> > > Date: Tuesday, September 1, 2009, 5:10 AM
>> > > I figure if you re-constitute zeros and ones
>> > > on my computer with enough permutations, you can make up
>> > > just about anything including 9/11 plans and blueprints for
>> > > thermonuke devices.
>> > >
>> > > I am all FOR encryption. If its MY bizness, then it
>> > > should STAY my business. As far as probing things I've
>> > > thought about and not done - well that is MINE ALONE. Stay
>> > > out of my HEAD - FEDS!
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > And as far as tracking my relative position between cell
>> > > phone towers - How else can I receive a phone call when
>> > > I'm out and about? But yeah - thanks for reminding me,
>> > > Bill - I should always remember to always turn it off when
>> > > I'm out there committing crimes!
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > -WaV
>> > >
>> > > On Mon, Aug 31, 2009 at 8:47 PM,
>> > > Mixon Bill <[email protected]>
>> > > wrote:
>> > >
>> > > Surely the authority of the customs people to inspect
>> > > vessels or vehicles applies only to those that have been
>> > > outside the United States?
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Anyway, there was an amusing thing in the news a few months
>> > > ago. Some guy came into the US from Canada and somehow the
>> > > customs people learned that there was kiddy porn on his
>> > > laptop computer and arrested him. However, the files were
>> > > encrypted, and even the feds were unable to break the
>> > > encryption and prove it. Courts ruled that the defendent
>> > > could not be required to give up the key to the code. (I
>> > > suspect this might have been a deliberate test case, with
>> > > the offending image deliberately out where the customs
>> > > inspector would see it.)
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Drive them crazy. Get PGP (Pretty Good Privacy) and encrypt
>> > > lots of perfectly innocent stuff on your computer. Don't
>> > > use some wimpy encryption facility that comes with your
>> > > operating system; it is probably not NSA-proof. (Actually,
>> > > of course, unless you deliberately do something to make them
>> > > suspicious--not recommended--, it is extremely unlikely that
>> > > they'll ever check.) It would be really nice if it was
>> > > easy and convenient to encrypt everything, including all
>> > > voice communications. But almost nobody really cares about
>> > > his privacy. Witness all those people who travel around with
>> > > their cell phones turned on, making it possible to track
>> > > them in real time.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > --Mixon
>> > >
>> > > ----------------------------------------
>> > >
>> > > A fearless man cannot be brave.
>> > >
>> > > ----------------------------------------
>> > >
>> > > You may "reply" to the address this message
>> > >
>> > > came from, but for long-term use, save:
>> > >
>> > > Personal: [email protected]
>> > >
>> > > AMCS: [email protected]
>> > > or [email protected]
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> > >
>> > > Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
>> > >
>> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected]
>> > >
>> > > For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected]
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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>> >
>>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
In addition to property, casualty, life and health, I hold a real estate
salesman's license which must be renewed every two years.
A prerequisite is 15 hours of mandatory continuing education and they have now
added fingerprinting and a background check which I am to have done this
afternoon. Word limits suck.
Fritz
________________________________
From: Linda Palit [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2009 12:25 PM
To: 'Texas Cavers'
Subject: RE: [Texascavers] Big-Brother related
Traditionally being fingerprinted was associated with being a criminal.
This view is sure to change as it becomes so common.
Probably this is becoming way off topic, and I am not meeting the word limits,
so enough of this for me.
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Scan away...I have nothing to hide.....Its all around us...and is probably
pointless to worry about.
Yes...The new passports are scannable...and many countries that require VISAs
are making those scannable as well....On a recent trip to Brazil....My VISA and
passport was scanned in Brazil and was surprised that they just implemented
that technology....and my passport was scanned coming back into the US....
And I was scanned on a trip to Europe before that....so it is not just the US
heading this way......
And my drivers liscense was scanned when I was recently stopped for speeding.
The county officer had a handheld wireless scanner...and a printer on his
belt...just like they use in the Apple store....there was one guy stopping
speeders such as me...and one guy in the police car checking people out on the
computer.
And my bank has been using the thumbprint authorization for a few years.....
I suspect this is just part of the world now...and although I am concerned
about privacy...it is hard to take that very seriously...since I do use
facebook...and subscribe to several e-lists such as this.....
There are bigger problems in the world than this.
--- On Tue, 9/1/09, Linda Palit <[email protected]> wrote:
From: Linda Palit <[email protected]>
Subject: RE: [Texascavers] Big Brother
To: "'Mixon Bill'" <[email protected]>, "'Cavers Texas'"
<[email protected]>
List-Post: [email protected]
Date: Tuesday, September 1, 2009, 12:18 PM
Microwave disables the strip? Or was it the freezer?
Passports have them too, at least the new ones do.
-----Original Message-----
From: Mixon Bill [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2009 12:07 PM
To: Cavers Texas
Subject: [Texascavers] Big Brother
Nobody has mentioned that we've had to give a thumbprint to get a
Texas driver's licence for at least ten years now. What the hell does
a thumbprint have to do with a driver's license, you may well ask.
Well, my understanding it that it was a federal mandate having
something to do with tracking down deadbeat dads who haven't been
paying child support. The magnetic strip on my current driver's
license probably won't work, because I've made a point of trying to
erase it, without any way to tell for sure that I have. Not that it
can be read remotely, but if anybody ever wants to scan it, I probably
won't be in a very cooperative mood. Nobody ever scanned the last one
I had.
Of course, with the new driver's licenses we're supposed to be getting
soon, there will be a lot more irrelevant stuff on them. Probably
there will be some easy trick to disable the RFI chip in the new
licenses--something more subtle than drilling a hole through it.
Of course, the more paranoid among us will never, ever use a tollway
pass....-- Mixon
----------------------------------------
A fearless man cannot be brave.
----------------------------------------
You may "reply" to the address this message
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Bill,
As I understand it (we haven't gone to this in Oregon yet), the thumbprint on
your DL is to help prevent identity theft. You can (if you're good enough) put
somebody else's picture on the DL, but it's hard to replace the print.
I think the one that I resent the most is the little rfid chip that stores like
Walmart put on a big percentage of their high-end merchandise to track it. See
this link:
http://www.greatdreams.com/rfid.htm
and if you really want to get paranoid, go to:
http://www.spychips.com/
They're probably reading this now. Oh no!!! I hear the jack boots coming!!!
Agh-h-h-h-h-h-h...........................................
Louise
> From: [email protected]
> To: [email protected]
> Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2009 12:06:50 -0500
> Subject: [Texascavers] Big Brother
>
> Nobody has mentioned that we've had to give a thumbprint to get a
> Texas driver's licence for at least ten years now. What the hell does
> a thumbprint have to do with a driver's license, you may well ask.
> Well, my understanding it that it was a federal mandate having
> something to do with tracking down deadbeat dads who haven't been
> paying child support. The magnetic strip on my current driver's
> license probably won't work, because I've made a point of trying to
> erase it, without any way to tell for sure that I have. Not that it
> can be read remotely, but if anybody ever wants to scan it, I probably
> won't be in a very cooperative mood. Nobody ever scanned the last one
> I had.
>
> Of course, with the new driver's licenses we're supposed to be getting
> soon, there will be a lot more irrelevant stuff on them. Probably
> there will be some easy trick to disable the RFI chip in the new
> licenses--something more subtle than drilling a hole through it.
>
> Of course, the more paranoid among us will never, ever use a tollway
> pass....-- Mixon
> ----------------------------------------
> A fearless man cannot be brave.
> ----------------------------------------
> You may "reply" to the address this message
> came from, but for long-term use, save:
> Personal: [email protected]
> AMCS: [email protected] or [email protected]
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected]
> For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected]
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Well, Brazil is the only country who fingerprints US citizens in response to US
requirement to fingerprint everybody (just for you to know). I actually wished
that all other countries will do the same... Just not fair.
Europe will not take your fingerprints when you come in (not so far but just
for a symmetry I hope that they will do that soon - only from Americans, EU
persons cross their borders inside the EU numerous countries without even
bothering to take their passports with them, and clearly without being
fingerprinted ).
I do not see how pedophilia is being prevented by fingerprinting the teachers.
Most cases include kids who just disappear, so I am not sure where to look for
the fingerprints.
And frankly, I do not want to give my fingerprints to my bank. There are many
online-banks only, so I guess at some point I will opt to those ones. No
fingerprinting.
Fingerprinting for the drivers license totally shocked us, too. Where are those
proud Americans who once were proud of not having any personal ID? Now it is
SSN, drivers license, what not - and all is fingerprinted! Frankly, this
two-years visit to USA totally opened my eyes. I had really different view on
this country before I came...
And yeah, I saw the "Life of Others"- the fact that they collect tons of
useless info is ridiculous, but the point is that all this useless info can be
always turned against you. Then you loose your job, your friends and you kill
yourself. Don't forget - I spent my childhood in USSR, and oftentimes I see
amazing similarities between USA and USSR. Very sad, isn't it? The only thing
is that everybody has a big nice shiny gun... Forgetting that the real weapon
is information.
Anyways, people, I think that we are giving way too much info to our
governments (not only here in US, although here it is really frightening).
I will start looking for a nice big cave to hide away from being scanned.
Hopefully with a huge underground/under-oceanic tunnel to run away to Europe
without being fingerprinted.
Katy
--- On Tue, 9/1/09, John P Brooks <[email protected]> wrote:
> From: John P Brooks <[email protected]>
> Subject: RE: [Texascavers] Big Brother
> To: "'Cavers Texas'" <[email protected]>
> Date: Tuesday, September 1, 2009, 8:48 PM
> Scan away...I have nothing to
> hide.....Its all around us...and is probably pointless to
> worry about.
> Yes...The new passports are scannable...and many
> countries that require VISAs are making those scannable as
> well....On a recent trip to Brazil....My VISA and
> passport was scanned in Brazil and was surprised that
> they just implemented that technology....and my passport was
> scanned coming back into the US....
> And I was scanned on a trip to Europe before
> that....so it is not just the US heading this
> way......
> And my drivers liscense was scanned when I was
> recently stopped for speeding. The county officer had a
> handheld wireless scanner...and a printer on his belt...just
> like they use in the Apple store....there was one guy
> stopping speeders such as me...and one guy in the police car
> checking people out on the computer.
> And my bank has been using the thumbprint
> authorization for a few years.....
> I suspect this is just part of the world now...and
> although I am concerned about privacy...it is hard to take
> that very seriously...since I do use facebook...and
> subscribe to several e-lists such as this.....
> There are bigger problems in the world than
> this.
>
>
>
> --- On Tue, 9/1/09, Linda Palit
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
> From: Linda Palit <[email protected]>
> Subject: RE: [Texascavers] Big Brother
> To: "'Mixon Bill'"
> <[email protected]>, "'Cavers
> Texas'" <[email protected]>
> Date: Tuesday, September 1, 2009, 12:18 PM
>
>
> Microwave disables the strip?
> Or was it the freezer?
> Passports have them too, at least the new ones do.
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mixon Bill [mailto:[email protected]]
>
> Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2009 12:07 PM
> To: Cavers Texas
> Subject: [Texascavers] Big Brother
>
> Nobody has mentioned that we've had to give a
> thumbprint to get a
> Texas driver's licence for at least ten years now. What
> the hell does
> a thumbprint have to do with a driver's license, you
> may well ask.
> Well, my understanding it that it was a federal mandate
> having
> something to do with tracking down deadbeat dads who
> haven't been
> paying child support. The magnetic strip on my current
> driver's
> license probably won't work,
> because I've made a point of trying to
> erase it, without any way to tell for sure that I have. Not
> that it
> can be read remotely, but if anybody ever wants to scan it,
> I probably
> won't be in a very cooperative mood. Nobody ever
> scanned the last one
> I had.
>
> Of course, with the new driver's licenses we're
> supposed to be getting
> soon, there will be a lot more irrelevant stuff on them.
> Probably
> there will be some easy trick to disable the RFI chip in
> the new
> licenses--something more subtle than drilling a hole
> through it.
>
> Of course, the more paranoid among us will never, ever use
> a tollway
> pass....-- Mixon
> ----------------------------------------
> A fearless man cannot be brave.
> ----------------------------------------
> You may "reply" to the address this message
> came from, but for long-term use, save:
> Personal: [email protected]
> AMCS: [email protected]
> or [email protected]
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected]
> For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected]
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
There have been people in the past who were in teaching postions that were
offenders.
Quinta
I have 4 greatgrandchildren from kindergarden to 5th grade. My grandaughter is
a teacher and she does not mind in the least. I does make you easy to eleminate
if they have fingerprints also.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Katy Roodenko said:
Well, Brazil is the only country who fingerprints US citizens in
response to US requirement to fingerprint everybody (just for you to
know). I actually wished that all other countries will do the
same... Just not fair.
I went to Brazil last year and had to pay $130 for a visa,
which is the same amount the U. S. charges Brazilians for a visa to
come to the U. S. My traveling partner is from Switzerland and
didn't have to pay anything because Switzerland doesn't charge
Brazilians for a visa to visit there. I think that is only fair. If
every country treated people from the U. S. the same way their
citizens are treated when they visit here, there might be more
political pressure to change the heavy-handed tactics of the U.
S. But probably not. The paranoid national security types here will
just say you shouldn't leave the country. I actually had a customs
agent tell me that one time when coming back from Mexico.
Mark Minton
You may reply to [email protected]
Permanent email address is [email protected]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
>> The paranoid national security types here will just say you shouldn't leave
>> the country. I actually had a customs agent tell me that one time when
>> coming back from Mexico. <<
I've been told that, too.
Bill
---- Mark Minton <[email protected]> wrote:
> Katy Roodenko said:
>
> >Well, Brazil is the only country who fingerprints US citizens in
> >response to US requirement to fingerprint everybody (just for you to
> >know). I actually wished that all other countries will do the
> >same... Just not fair.
>
> I went to Brazil last year and had to pay $130 for a visa,
> which is the same amount the U. S. charges Brazilians for a visa to
> come to the U. S. My traveling partner is from Switzerland and
> didn't have to pay anything because Switzerland doesn't charge
> Brazilians for a visa to visit there. I think that is only fair. If
> every country treated people from the U. S. the same way their
> citizens are treated when they visit here, there might be more
> political pressure to change the heavy-handed tactics of the U.
> S. But probably not. The paranoid national security types here will
> just say you shouldn't leave the country. I actually had a customs
> agent tell me that one time when coming back from Mexico.
>
> Mark Minton
>
> You may reply to [email protected]
> Permanent email address is [email protected]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
For RFID, you might not need a Faraday cage - you might just microwave it for a
while. Should disable it. (never tried it though).
I am not sure that microwaving iPhone is a good idea in that sense :)
That's the spirit!
Katy
--- On Tue, 9/1/09, Brian Riordan <[email protected]> wrote:
> From: Brian Riordan <[email protected]>
> Subject: Re: RE: [Texascavers] Big-Brother related
> To: [email protected]
> Date: Tuesday, September 1, 2009, 6:03 PM
> Foil hat- I hear ya Joe!
> I'm currently working on building a compliant Faraday Cage
> to keep out
> Big Brother (who I'll from here on out I'll refer to as
> "Big Stepdad")
> I'm gonna call it the "Faraday Freedom Frock" (working
> title).
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faraday_cage
>
> If you don't mind eliminating any way for someone to call
> you, I
> believe there are cases comercially available to put your
> phone in to
> block any signals in or out, but then why carry
> phone? Personally,
> I'm still a big fan of the pager. There are also
> sleaves available
> for blocking RFID signals- passive and active (like the
> ones in the
> new passports).
>
> As for physically taking data storage devices and searching
> them: what
> a crock! If I really want to hide something, I'll
> have no problem
> disguising or hiding 2 gigs the size of my thumbnail.
> What a waste of
> government resources (surprise!).
>
> As for the teachers: My wife is one of those teachers
> who "meekly
> gave up her right to privacy". But of course, after 4
> years of school
> to teach they spring that rule on you, and there are plenty
> of people
> willing to be fingerprinted to get the job- what do you
> do? If she
> kept her "privacy" she'd have to have 3 roomates to pay the
> bills.
> OR, give up her privacy so she could have enough money to
> have her own
> place (at the time). It's just like the social
> security number: "not
> to be used as identification". Try to get credit
> without one!
>
> I disagree with it too, but not a lot of options...
>
> -B
>
> On Tue, Sep 1, 2009 at 9:43 AM, <[email protected]>
> wrote:
> > The cell phone tracking is something I had read about
> but never gave a ton
> > of thought to until I bought the new iphone. On my
> first generation iphone
> > the tracking feature could put me in a 10 or 20 block
> area. A little close
> > for comfort but not awful. My new iphone without using
> gps often shows my
> > precise location to within 10-30 feet. It does this by
> triangulating my
> > location from the cell towers but then goes a step
> further using the wifi
> > networks nearby to greatly improve the accuracy. Using
> the built in
> > accelerometer the phone even knows what direction I am
> facing...
> >
> > I'm not entirely sure this makes me comfortable but
> then again I continue to
> > use it. I suppose the moral of the story is that if
> you need privacy don't
> > buy any portable electronic device.
> >
> > Heck, my cat has her own RFID chip. I used to think
> that using cash instead
> > of cards also helps but now I am hearing that the
> strips in new money can be
> > picked up by sensors at customs. I've not yet
> completely substantiated this
> > one yet...
> >
> > Time to get out my foil hat!
> >
> > Joe
> >
> > On Sep 1, 2009 8:59am, Linda Palit <[email protected]>
> wrote:
> >> The local grocery is about to require a
> fingerprint with check and
> >>
> >> identification, if you want to use a check. It
> has been tested in Austin,
> >>
> >> etc, and seems to have worked out. Babies and
> children are sometimes
> >>
> >> fingerprinted to use as comparison in the case of
> crimes.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Anonymity is becoming rare and more difficult, and
> fingerprinting is
> >>
> >> associated with things much different than it once
> was.
> >>
> >> I put this in a different category than invading
> my personal laptop or
> >>
> >> tapping my phone, but in a digital age, perhaps it
> all runs together.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >>
> >> From: Katy Roodenko [mailto:[email protected]]
> >>
> >> Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2009 8:50 AM
> >>
> >> To: Cavers Texas
> >>
> >> Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Big-Brother related
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Hm,
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Can we (the foreigners who for whatever reason
> come to visit USA) encrypt
> >>
> >> our fingerprints? I have never been to any as
> humiliating process as this
> >>
> >> one: being taken my fingerprints at the US
> border.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> I guess it is really not the best way to make
> friends. I know many of my
> >>
> >> friends in Europe who would not come to USA
> precisely for this reason.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> For whatever reasons, very recently, Texas
> Teachers were ordered to give
> >>
> >> their fingerprints as well. I expected riots and
> protests - but they went
> >>
> >> silently to gave up all their privacy as easily as
> that! What a KGB
> >> country
> >>
> >> of obedient society who shouts loudly on privacy
> but really forgot what
> >>
> >> "privacy" really means!
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Really, if I had a kid, I would not like it to be
> educated by these
> >>
> >> teachers.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Katy
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --- On Tue, 9/1/09, Don Cooper [email protected]>
> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> > From: Don Cooper [email protected]>
> >>
> >> > Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Big-Brother
> related
> >>
> >> > To: "Mixon Bill" [email protected]>
> >>
> >> > Cc: "Cavers Texas" [email protected]>
> >>
> >> > Date: Tuesday, September 1, 2009, 5:10 AM
> >>
> >> > I figure if you re-constitute zeros and ones
> >>
> >> > on my computer with enough permutations, you
> can make up
> >>
> >> > just about anything including 9/11 plans and
> blueprints for
> >>
> >> > thermonuke devices.
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> > I am all FOR encryption. If its MY
> bizness, then it
> >>
> >> > should STAY my business. As far as probing
> things I've
> >>
> >> > thought about and not done - well that is
> MINE ALONE. Stay
> >>
> >> > out of my HEAD - FEDS!
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> > And as far as tracking my relative position
> between cell
> >>
> >> > phone towers - How else can I receive a phone
> call when
> >>
> >> > I'm out and about? But yeah - thanks for
> reminding me,
> >>
> >> > Bill - I should always remember to always
> turn it off when
> >>
> >> > I'm out there committing crimes!
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> > -WaV
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> > On Mon, Aug 31, 2009 at 8:47 PM,
> >>
> >> > Mixon Bill [email protected]>
> >>
> >> > wrote:
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> > Surely the authority of the customs people to
> inspect
> >>
> >> > vessels or vehicles applies only to those
> that have been
> >>
> >> > outside the United States?
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> > Anyway, there was an amusing thing in the
> news a few months
> >>
> >> > ago. Some guy came into the US from Canada
> and somehow the
> >>
> >> > customs people learned that there was kiddy
> porn on his
> >>
> >> > laptop computer and arrested him. However,
> the files were
> >>
> >> > encrypted, and even the feds were unable to
> break the
> >>
> >> > encryption and prove it. Courts ruled that
> the defendent
> >>
> >> > could not be required to give up the key to
> the code. (I
> >>
> >> > suspect this might have been a deliberate
> test case, with
> >>
> >> > the offending image deliberately out where
> the customs
> >>
> >> > inspector would see it.)
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> > Drive them crazy. Get PGP (Pretty Good
> Privacy) and encrypt
> >>
> >> > lots of perfectly innocent stuff on your
> computer. Don't
> >>
> >> > use some wimpy encryption facility that comes
> with your
> >>
> >> > operating system; it is probably not
> NSA-proof. (Actually,
> >>
> >> > of course, unless you deliberately do
> something to make them
> >>
> >> > suspicious--not recommended--, it is
> extremely unlikely that
> >>
> >> > they'll ever check.) It would be really nice
> if it was
> >>
> >> > easy and convenient to encrypt everything,
> including all
> >>
> >> > voice communications. But almost nobody
> really cares about
> >>
> >> > his privacy. Witness all those people who
> travel around with
> >>
> >> > their cell phones turned on, making it
> possible to track
> >>
> >> > them in real time.
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> > --Mixon
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> > ----------------------------------------
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> > A fearless man cannot be brave.
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> > ----------------------------------------
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> > You may "reply" to the address this message
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> > came from, but for long-term use, save:
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> > Personal: [email protected]
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> > AMCS: [email protected]
> >>
> >> > or [email protected]
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> >
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> > Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected]
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> > For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected]
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>
> >> Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
> >>
> >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected]
> >>
> >> For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected]
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>
> >> Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
> >>
> >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected]
> >>
> >> For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected]
> >>
> >>
> >>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected]
> For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected]
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At the school in which I teach, all students and teachers have a
RFID. Kinda cool, easy to tell when students are skipping out. Once
I was relaxing for a few minutes on the porcelain thrown and got a
knock at the door with a question from a student! Now as soon as I
get in the door I swap the battery out for a very weak one ... drives
'em nuts ; )
> For RFID, you might not need a Faraday cage - you might just microwave
> it for a while. Should disable it. (never tried it though).
>
> I am not sure that microwaving iPhone is a good idea in that sense :)
>
> That's the spirit!
>
> Katy
>
>
>
> --- On Tue, 9/1/09, Brian Riordan <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > From: Brian Riordan <[email protected]>
> > Subject: Re: RE: [Texascavers] Big-Brother related
> > To: [email protected]
> > Date: Tuesday, September 1, 2009, 6:03 PM
> > Foil hat- I hear ya Joe!
> > I'm currently working on building a compliant Faraday Cage
> > to keep out
> > Big Brother (who I'll from here on out I'll refer to as
> > "Big Stepdad")
> > I'm gonna call it the "Faraday Freedom Frock" (working
> > title).
> >
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faraday_cage
> >
> > If you don't mind eliminating any way for someone to call
> > you, I
> > believe there are cases comercially available to put your
> > phone in to
> > block any signals in or out, but then why carry
> > phone? Personally,
> > I'm still a big fan of the pager. There are also
> > sleaves available
> > for blocking RFID signals- passive and active (like the
> > ones in the
> > new passports).
> >
> > As for physically taking data storage devices and searching
> > them: what
> > a crock! If I really want to hide something, I'll
> > have no problem
> > disguising or hiding 2 gigs the size of my thumbnail.
> > What a waste of
> > government resources (surprise!).
> >
> > As for the teachers: My wife is one of those teachers
> > who "meekly
> > gave up her right to privacy". But of course, after 4
> > years of school
> > to teach they spring that rule on you, and there are plenty
> > of people
> > willing to be fingerprinted to get the job- what do you
> > do? If she
> > kept her "privacy" she'd have to have 3 roomates to pay the
> > bills.
> > OR, give up her privacy so she could have enough money to
> > have her own
> > place (at the time). It's just like the social
> > security number: "not
> > to be used as identification". Try to get credit
> > without one!
> >
> > I disagree with it too, but not a lot of options...
> >
> > -B
> >
> > On Tue, Sep 1, 2009 at 9:43 AM, <[email protected]>
> > wrote:
> > > The cell phone tracking is something I had read about
> > but never gave a ton
> > > of thought to until I bought the new iphone. On my
> > first generation iphone
> > > the tracking feature could put me in a 10 or 20 block
> > area. A little close
> > > for comfort but not awful. My new iphone without using
> > gps often shows my
> > > precise location to within 10-30 feet. It does this by
> > triangulating my
> > > location from the cell towers but then goes a step
> > further using the wifi
> > > networks nearby to greatly improve the accuracy. Using
> > the built in
> > > accelerometer the phone even knows what direction I am
> > facing...
> > >
> > > I'm not entirely sure this makes me comfortable but
> > then again I continue to
> > > use it. I suppose the moral of the story is that if
> > you need privacy don't
> > > buy any portable electronic device.
> > >
> > > Heck, my cat has her own RFID chip. I used to think
> > that using cash instead
> > > of cards also helps but now I am hearing that the
> > strips in new money can be
> > > picked up by sensors at customs. I've not yet
> > completely substantiated this
> > > one yet...
> > >
> > > Time to get out my foil hat!
> > >
> > > Joe
> > >
> > > On Sep 1, 2009 8:59am, Linda Palit <[email protected]>
> > wrote:
> > >> The local grocery is about to require a
> > fingerprint with check and
> > >>
> > >> identification, if you want to use a check. It
> > has been tested in Austin,
> > >>
> > >> etc, and seems to have worked out. Babies and
> > children are sometimes
> > >>
> > >> fingerprinted to use as comparison in the case of
> > crimes.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Anonymity is becoming rare and more difficult, and
> > fingerprinting is
> > >>
> > >> associated with things much different than it once
> > was.
> > >>
> > >> I put this in a different category than invading
> > my personal laptop or
> > >>
> > >> tapping my phone, but in a digital age, perhaps it
> > all runs together.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> -----Original Message-----
> > >>
> > >> From: Katy Roodenko [mailto:[email protected]]
> > >>
> > >> Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2009 8:50 AM
> > >>
> > >> To: Cavers Texas
> > >>
> > >> Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Big-Brother related
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Hm,
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Can we (the foreigners who for whatever reason
> > come to visit USA) encrypt
> > >>
> > >> our fingerprints? I have never been to any as
> > humiliating process as this
> > >>
> > >> one: being taken my fingerprints at the US
> > border.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> I guess it is really not the best way to make
> > friends. I know many of my
> > >>
> > >> friends in Europe who would not come to USA
> > precisely for this reason.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> For whatever reasons, very recently, Texas
> > Teachers were ordered to give
> > >>
> > >> their fingerprints as well. I expected riots and
> > protests - but they went
> > >>
> > >> silently to gave up all their privacy as easily as
> > that! What a KGB
> > >> country
> > >>
> > >> of obedient society who shouts loudly on privacy
> > but really forgot what
> > >>
> > >> "privacy" really means!
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Really, if I had a kid, I would not like it to be
> > educated by these
> > >>
> > >> teachers.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Katy
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> --- On Tue, 9/1/09, Don Cooper [email protected]>
> > wrote:
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> > From: Don Cooper [email protected]>
> > >>
> > >> > Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Big-Brother
> > related
> > >>
> > >> > To: "Mixon Bill" [email protected]>
> > >>
> > >> > Cc: "Cavers Texas" [email protected]>
> > >>
> > >> > Date: Tuesday, September 1, 2009, 5:10 AM
> > >>
> > >> > I figure if you re-constitute zeros and ones
> > >>
> > >> > on my computer with enough permutations, you
> > can make up
> > >>
> > >> > just about anything including 9/11 plans and
> > blueprints for
> > >>
> > >> > thermonuke devices.
> > >>
> > >> >
> > >>
> > >> > I am all FOR encryption. If its MY
> > bizness, then it
> > >>
> > >> > should STAY my business. As far as probing
> > things I've
> > >>
> > >> > thought about and not done - well that is
> > MINE ALONE. Stay
> > >>
> > >> > out of my HEAD - FEDS!
> > >>
> > >> >
> > >>
> > >> >
> > >>
> > >> > And as far as tracking my relative position
> > between cell
> > >>
> > >> > phone towers - How else can I receive a phone
> > call when
> > >>
> > >> > I'm out and about? But yeah - thanks for
> > reminding me,
> > >>
> > >> > Bill - I should always remember to always
> > turn it off when
> > >>
> > >> > I'm out there committing crimes!
> > >>
> > >> >
> > >>
> > >> >
> > >>
> > >> > -WaV
> > >>
> > >> >
> > >>
> > >> > On Mon, Aug 31, 2009 at 8:47 PM,
> > >>
> > >> > Mixon Bill [email protected]>
> > >>
> > >> > wrote:
> > >>
> > >> >
> > >>
> > >> > Surely the authority of the customs people to
> > inspect
> > >>
> > >> > vessels or vehicles applies only to those
> > that have been
> > >>
> > >> > outside the United States?
> > >>
> > >> >
> > >>
> > >> >
> > >>
> > >> >
> > >>
> > >> > Anyway, there was an amusing thing in the
> > news a few months
> > >>
> > >> > ago. Some guy came into the US from Canada
> > and somehow the
> > >>
> > >> > customs people learned that there was kiddy
> > porn on his
> > >>
> > >> > laptop computer and arrested him. However,
> > the files were
> > >>
> > >> > encrypted, and even the feds were unable to
> > break the
> > >>
> > >> > encryption and prove it. Courts ruled that
> > the defendent
> > >>
> > >> > could not be required to give up the key to
> > the code. (I
> > >>
> > >> > suspect this might have been a deliberate
> > test case, with
> > >>
> > >> > the offending image deliberately out where
> > the customs
> > >>
> > >> > inspector would see it.)
> > >>
> > >> >
> > >>
> > >> >
> > >>
> > >> >
> > >>
> > >> >
> > >>
> > >> > Drive them crazy. Get PGP (Pretty Good
> > Privacy) and encrypt
> > >>
> > >> > lots of perfectly innocent stuff on your
> > computer. Don't
> > >>
> > >> > use some wimpy encryption facility that comes
> > with your
> > >>
> > >> > operating system; it is probably not
> > NSA-proof. (Actually,
> > >>
> > >> > of course, unless you deliberately do
> > something to make them
> > >>
> > >> > suspicious--not recommended--, it is
> > extremely unlikely that
> > >>
> > >> > they'll ever check.) It would be really nice
> > if it was
> > >>
> > >> > easy and convenient to encrypt everything,
> > including all
> > >>
> > >> > voice communications. But almost nobody
> > really cares about
> > >>
> > >> > his privacy. Witness all those people who
> > travel around with
> > >>
> > >> > their cell phones turned on, making it
> > possible to track
> > >>
> > >> > them in real time.
> > >>
> > >> >
> > >>
> > >> >
> > >>
> > >> > --Mixon
> > >>
> > >> >
> > >>
> > >> > ----------------------------------------
> > >>
> > >> >
> > >>
> > >> > A fearless man cannot be brave.
> > >>
> > >> >
> > >>
> > >> > ----------------------------------------
> > >>
> > >> >
> > >>
> > >> > You may "reply" to the address this message
> > >>
> > >> >
> > >>
> > >> > came from, but for long-term use, save:
> > >>
> > >> >
> > >>
> > >> > Personal: [email protected]
> > >>
> > >> >
> > >>
> > >> > AMCS: [email protected]
> > >>
> > >> > or [email protected]
> > >>
> > >> >
> > >>
> > >> >
> > >>
> > >> >
> > >>
> > >> >
> > >>
> > >> >
> > >>
> > >> >
> > >>
> > >> >
> > >>
> > >> >
> > >>
> > >> >
> > >>
> > >> >
> > >>
> > >> >
> > >>
> > >> >
> > >>
> > >> >
> > >>
> > >> >
> > >>
> > >> >
> > >>
> > >> >
> > >>
> > >> >
> > >>
> > >> >
> > >>
> > >> >
> > >>
> > >> >
> > >>
> > >> >
> > >>
> > >> >
> > >>
> > >> >
> > >>
> > >> >
> > >>
> > >> >
> > >>
> > >> >
> > --------------------------------------------------------------------
> > -
> > >>
> > >> >
> > >>
> > >> > Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
> > >>
> > >> >
> > >>
> > >> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected]
> > >>
> > >> >
> > >>
> > >> > For additional commands, e-mail:
> > >> > [email protected]
> > >>
> > >> >
> > >>
> > >> >
> > >>
> > >> >
> > >>
> > >> >
> > >>
> > >> >
> > >>
> > >> >
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > --------------------------------------------------------------------
> > -
> > >>
> > >> Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
> > >>
> > >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected]
> > >>
> > >> For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected]
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > --------------------------------------------------------------------
> > -
> > >>
> > >> Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
> > >>
> > >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected]
> > >>
> > >> For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected]
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> >
> > --------------------------------------------------------------------
> > - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail:
> > [email protected] For additional commands,
> > e-mail: [email protected]
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail:
> [email protected] For additional commands,
> e-mail: [email protected]
>
--- End Message ---
