texascavers Digest 2 Sep 2009 18:53:58 -0000 Issue 845 Topics (messages 11985 through 11999):
Re: Big Brother
11985 by: Rod Goke
11986 by: tbsamsel.verizon.net
11990 by: Gill Edigar
Re: Totally non caving related
11987 by: Ron Miller
11996 by: Diana Tomchick
Paradise Canyon
11988 by: Kurt L. Menking
11989 by: Fritz Holt
11991 by: John Brooks
11992 by: Allan Cobb
11993 by: germanyj.aol.com
11994 by: Geary Schindel
11995 by: tbsamsel.verizon.net
11997 by: Fritz Holt
11998 by: Fritz Holt
11999 by: Kurt L. Menking
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--- Begin Message ---A magnetic strip can be erased by exposure to a strong magnetic field. It is similar to magnetic recording tape, such as that used in audio or video cassette tape recorders, and is also similar to the recording media used in floppy disks. Moving a strong permanent magnet next to it might be sufficient to erase it, but a more effective method probably would be to use an AC powered bulk tape eraser, such as those sold in electronics stores for erasing VHS video tapes. RFID chips work differently. They are integrated circuits designed to act like little radio transmitters that transmit digitally encoded identifying information whenever they receive a certain kind of interrogation signal transmitted by an external RFID scanning device. It is true that a microwave oven is likely to quickly disable an RFID chip (or, for that matter, any other electronic device) that you cook in it, but there is also a hazard that the RFID chip could quickly become very hot while you're cooking it and might melt or burn the product in which it is embedded. You might destroy more than you intend with this method. With either a magnetic strip or an RFID, it is difficult to determine whether or not an attempt to erase or disable the thing has succeeded unless you have access to an appropriate reader or scanning device. Rod -----Original Message----- >From: Linda Palit <[email protected]> >Sent: Sep 1, 2009 1:18 PM >To: 'Mixon Bill' <[email protected]>, 'Cavers Texas' ><[email protected]> >Subject: RE: [Texascavers] Big Brother > >Microwave disables the strip? Or was it the freezer? >Passports have them too, at least the new ones do. > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Mixon Bill [mailto:[email protected]] >Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2009 12:07 PM >To: Cavers Texas >Subject: [Texascavers] Big Brother > >Nobody has mentioned that we've had to give a thumbprint to get a >Texas driver's licence for at least ten years now. What the hell does >a thumbprint have to do with a driver's license, you may well ask. >Well, my understanding it that it was a federal mandate having >something to do with tracking down deadbeat dads who haven't been >paying child support. The magnetic strip on my current driver's >license probably won't work, because I've made a point of trying to >erase it, without any way to tell for sure that I have. Not that it >can be read remotely, but if anybody ever wants to scan it, I probably >won't be in a very cooperative mood. Nobody ever scanned the last one >I had. > >Of course, with the new driver's licenses we're supposed to be getting >soon, there will be a lot more irrelevant stuff on them. Probably >there will be some easy trick to disable the RFI chip in the new >licenses--something more subtle than drilling a hole through it. > >Of course, the more paranoid among us will never, ever use a tollway >pass....-- Mixon >---------------------------------------- >A fearless man cannot be brave. >---------------------------------------- >You may "reply" to the address this message >came from, but for long-term use, save: >Personal: [email protected] >AMCS: [email protected] or [email protected] > > > > > > > > > > > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- >Visit our website: http://texascavers.com >To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected] >For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected] > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- >Visit our website: http://texascavers.com >To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected] >For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected] >
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---The SSN has been around since the 1930s and is not supposed to be used for ID.Well, Brazil is the only country who fingerprints US citizens in response to US requirement to fingerprint everybody (just for you to know). I actually wished that all other countries will do the same... Just not fair.
Europe will not take your fingerprints when you come in (not so far but just for a symmetry I hope that they will do that soon - only from Americans, EU persons cross their borders inside the EU numerous countries without even bothering to take their passports with them, and clearly without being fingerprinted ).
I do not see how pedophilia is being prevented by fingerprinting the teachers. Most cases include kids who just disappear, so I am not sure where to look for the fingerprints.
And frankly, I do not want to give my fingerprints to my bank. There are many online-banks only, so I guess at some point I will opt to those ones. No fingerprinting.
Fingerprinting for the drivers license totally shocked us, too. Where are those proud Americans who once were proud of not having any personal ID? Now it is SSN, drivers license, what not - and all is fingerprinted! Frankly, this two-years visit to USA totally opened my eyes. I had really different view on this country before I came...
And yeah, I saw the "Life of Others"- the fact that they collect tons of useless info is ridiculous, but the point is that all this useless info can be always turned against you. Then you loose your job, your friends and you kill yourself. Don't forget - I spent my childhood in USSR, and oftentimes I see amazing similarities between USA and USSR. Very sad, isn't it? The only thing is that everybody has a big nice shiny gun... Forgetting that the real weapon is information.
Anyways, people, I think that we are giving way too much info to our governments (not only here in US, although here it is really frightening).
I will start looking for a nice big cave to hide away from being scanned. Hopefully with a huge underground/under-oceanic tunnel to run away to Europe without being fingerprinted.
Katy
--- On Tue, 9/1/09, John P Brooks <[email protected]> wrote:
> From: John P Brooks <[email protected]>
> Subject: RE: [Texascavers] Big Brother
> To: "'Cavers Texas'" <[email protected]>
> Date: Tuesday, September 1, 2009, 8:48 PM
> Scan away...I have nothing to
> hide.....Its all around us...and is probably pointless to
> worry about.
> Yes...The new passports are scannable...and many
> countries that require VISAs are making those scannable as
> well....On a recent trip to Brazil....My VISA and
> passport was scanned in Brazil and was surprised that
> they just implemented that technology....and my passport was
> scanned coming back into the US....
> And I was scanned on a trip to Europe before
> that....so it is not just the US heading this
> way......
> And my drivers liscense was scanned when I was
> recently stopped for speeding. The county officer had a
> handheld wireless scanner...and a printer on his belt...just
> like they use in the Apple store....there was one guy
> stopping speeders such as me...and one guy in the police car
> checking people out on the computer.
> And my bank has been using the thumbprint
> authorization for a few years.....
> I suspect this is just part of the world now...and
> although I am concerned about privacy...it is hard to take
> that very seriously...since I do use facebook...and
> subscribe to several e-lists such as this.....
> There are bigger problems in the world than
> this.
>
>
>
> --- On Tue, 9/1/09, Linda Palit
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
> From: Linda Palit <[email protected]>
> Subject: RE: [Texascavers] Big Brother
> To: "'Mixon Bill'"
> <[email protected]>, "'Cavers
> Texas'" <[email protected]>
> Date: Tuesday, September 1, 2009, 12:18 PM
>
>
> Microwave disables the strip?
> Or was it the freezer?
> Passports have them too, at least the new ones do.
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mixon Bill [mailto:[email protected]]
>
> Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2009 12:07 PM
> To: Cavers Texas
> Subject: [Texascavers] Big Brother
>
> Nobody has mentioned that we've had to give a
> thumbprint to get a
> Texas driver's licence for at least ten years now. What
> the hell does
> a thumbprint have to do with a driver's license, you
> may well ask.
> Well, my understanding it that it was a federal mandate
> having
> something to do with tracking down deadbeat dads who
> haven't been
> paying child support. The magnetic strip on my current
> driver's
> license probably won't work,
> because I've made a point of trying to
> erase it, without any way to tell for sure that I have. Not
> that it
> can be read remotely, but if anybody ever wants to scan it,
> I probably
> won't be in a very cooperative mood. Nobody ever
> scanned the last one
> I had.
>
> Of course, with the new driver's licenses we're
> supposed to be getting
> soon, there will be a lot more irrelevant stuff on them.
> Probably
> there will be some easy trick to disable the RFI chip in
> the new
> licenses--something more subtle than drilling a hole
> through it.
>
> Of course, the more paranoid among us will never, ever use
> a tollway
> pass....-- Mixon
> ----------------------------------------
> A fearless man cannot be brave.
> ----------------------------------------
> You may "reply" to the address this message
> came from, but for long-term use, save:
> Personal: [email protected]
> AMCS: [email protected]
> or [email protected]
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected]
> For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected]
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
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> For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected]
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---The newest Alien ID cards that I've seen have some sort of plastic strip that has the numbers visibly embedded within them and could have some sort of hologram business that would hold a large amount of personal information. --Ediger Side note: Technically it's SSAN (Social Security Account Number) but has been popularly shortened to SSN or, more anally, just "social". --GE On Wed, Sep 2, 2009 at 5:59 AM, <[email protected]> wrote: > The SSN has been around since the 1930s and is not supposed to be used > for ID. > > T. > > > Sep 1, 2009 03:47:23 PM, [email protected] wrote: > > Well, Brazil is the only country who fingerprints US citizens in response > to US requirement to fingerprint everybody (just for you to know). I > actually wished that all other countries will do the same... Just not fair. > > Europe will not take your fingerprints when you come in (not so far but > just for a symmetry I hope that they will do that soon - only from > Americans, EU persons cross their borders inside the EU numerous countries > without even bothering to take their passports with them, and clearly > without being fingerprinted ). > > I do not see how pedophilia is being prevented by fingerprinting the > teachers. Most cases include kids who just disappear, so I am not sure where > to look for the fingerprints. > > And frankly, I do not want to give my fingerprints to my bank. There are > many online-banks only, so I guess at some point I will opt to those ones. > No fingerprinting. > > Fingerprinting for the drivers license totally shocked us, too. Where are > those proud Americans who once were proud of not having any personal ID? Now > it is SSN, drivers license, what not - and all is fingerprinted! Frankly, > this two-years visit to USA totally opened my eyes. I had really different > view on this country before I came... > > And yeah, I saw the "Life of Others"- the fact that they collect tons of > useless info is ridiculous, but the point is that all this useless info can > be always turned against you. Then you loose your job, your friends and you > kill yourself. Don't forget - I spent my childhood in USSR, and oftentimes I > see amazing similarities between USA and USSR. Very sad, isn't it? The only > thing is that everybody has a big nice shiny gun... Forgetting that the real > weapon is information. > > Anyways, people, I think that we are giving way too much info to our > governments (not only here in US, although here it is really frightening). > > I will start looking for a nice big cave to hide away from being scanned. > Hopefully with a huge underground/under-oceanic tunnel to run away to Europe > without being fingerprinted. > > Katy > > > > --- On Tue, 9/1/09, John P Brooks <[email protected]> wrote: > > > From: John P Brooks <[email protected]> > > Subject: RE: [Texascavers] Big Brother > > To: "'Cavers Texas'" <[email protected]> > > Date: Tuesday, September 1, 2009, 8:48 PM > > Scan away...I have nothing to > > hide.....Its all around us...and is probably pointless to > > worry about. > > Yes...The new passports are scannable...and many > > countries that require VISAs are making those scannable as > > well....On a recent trip to Brazil....My VISA and > > passport was scanned in Brazil and was surprised that > > they just implemented that technology....and my passport was > > scanned coming back into the US.... > > And I was scanned on a trip to Europe before > > that....so it is not just the US heading this > > way...... > > And my drivers liscense was scanned when I was > > recently stopped for speeding. The county officer had a > > handheld wireless scanner...and a printer on his belt...just > > like they use in the Apple store....there was one guy > > stopping speeders such as me...and one guy in the police car > > checking people out on the computer. > > And my bank has been using the thumbprint > > authorization for a few years..... > > I suspect this is just part of the world now...and > > although I am concerned about privacy...it is hard to take > > that very seriously...since I do use facebook...and > > subscribe to several e-lists such as this..... > > There are bigger problems in the world than > > this. > > > > > > > > --- On Tue, 9/1/09, Linda Palit > > <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > From: Linda Palit <[email protected]> > > Subject: RE: [Texascavers] Big Brother > > To: "'Mixon Bill'" > > <[email protected]>, "'Cavers > > Texas'" <[email protected]> > > Date: Tuesday, September 1, 2009, 12:18 PM > > > > > > Microwave disables the strip? > > Or was it the freezer? > > Passports have them too, at least the new ones do. > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Mixon Bill [mailto:[email protected]] > > > > Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2009 12:07 PM > > To: Cavers Texas > > Subject: [Texascavers] Big Brother > > > > Nobody has mentioned that we've had to give a > > thumbprint to get a > > Texas driver's licence for at least ten years now. What > > the hell does > > a thumbprint have to do with a driver's license, you > > may well ask. > > Well, my understanding it that it was a federal mandate > > having > > something to do with tracking down deadbeat dads who > > haven't been > > paying child support. The magnetic strip on my current > > driver's > > license probably won't work, > > because I've made a point of trying to > > erase it, without any way to tell for sure that I have. Not > > that it > > can be read remotely, but if anybody ever wants to scan it, > > I probably > > won't be in a very cooperative mood. Nobody ever > > scanned the last one > > I had. > > > > Of course, with the new driver's licenses we're > > supposed to be getting > > soon, there will be a lot more irrelevant stuff on them. > > Probably > > there will be some easy trick to disable the RFI chip in > > the new > > licenses--something more subtle than drilling a hole > > through it. > > > > Of course, the more paranoid among us will never, ever use > > a tollway > > pass....-- Mixon > > ---------------------------------------- > > A fearless man cannot be brave. > > ---------------------------------------- > > You may "reply" to the address this message > > came from, but for long-term use, save: > > Personal: [email protected] > > AMCS: [email protected] > > or [email protected] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Visit our website: http://texascavers.com > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected] > > For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected] > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Visit our website: http://texascavers.com > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected] > > For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected] > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > Visit our website: http://texascavers.com > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected] > For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected] > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- Visit > our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: > [email protected] For additional commands, e-mail: > [email protected]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---And, if you think that is worrisome, consider this. A "pandemic response bill" currently making its way through the Massachusetts state legislature would allow authorities to forcefully quarantine citizens in the event of a health emergency, compel health providers to vaccinate citizens, authorize forceful entry into private dwellings and destruction of citizen property and impose fines on citizens for noncompliance. If citizens refuse to comply with isolation or quarantine orders in the event of a health emergency, they may be imprisoned for up to 30 days and fined $1,000 per day that the violation continues. RON ________________________________ From: Katy Roodenko <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Tuesday, September 1, 2009 3:47:19 PM Subject: RE: [Texascavers] Big Brother Well, Brazil is the only country who fingerprints US citizens in response to US requirement to fingerprint everybody (just for you to know). I actually wished that all other countries will do the same... Just not fair. Europe will not take your fingerprints when you come in (not so far but just for a symmetry I hope that they will do that soon - only from Americans, EU persons cross their borders inside the EU numerous countries without even bothering to take their passports with them, and clearly without being fingerprinted ). I do not see how pedophilia is being prevented by fingerprinting the teachers. Most cases include kids who just disappear, so I am not sure where to look for the fingerprints. And frankly, I do not want to give my fingerprints to my bank. There are many online-banks only, so I guess at some point I will opt to those ones. No fingerprinting. Fingerprinting for the drivers license totally shocked us, too. Where are those proud Americans who once were proud of not having any personal ID? Now it is SSN, drivers license, what not - and all is fingerprinted! Frankly, this two-years visit to USA totally opened my eyes. I had really different view on this country before I came... And yeah, I saw the "Life of Others"- the fact that they collect tons of useless info is ridiculous, but the point is that all this useless info can be always turned against you. Then you loose your job, your friends and you kill yourself. Don't forget - I spent my childhood in USSR, and oftentimes I see amazing similarities between USA and USSR. Very sad, isn't it? The only thing is that everybody has a big nice shiny gun... Forgetting that the real weapon is information. Anyways, people, I think that we are giving way too much info to our governments (not only here in US, although here it is really frightening). I will start looking for a nice big cave to hide away from being scanned. Hopefully with a huge underground/under-oceanic tunnel to run away to Europe without being fingerprinted. Katy
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- I really hate to point this out to y'all, but even Texas involuntarily detains tuberculosis patients who refuse treatment, read about it here:http://aapsonline.org/nod/newsofday413.phpY'all are naive beyond belief if you think that being in America means that individual rights trump the safety of the community. If that bothers you, perhaps you should go live alone in the woods like Ted Kaczynski (the Unabomber), who would have been left completely alone if he hadn't been a danger to others by mailing bombs to them.DianaP.S. Drug resistant tuberculosis is extremely serious and a world-wide problem. The fact that it takes a 6-month course of antibiotics to clear non-resistant tuberculosis has lead to patients refusing to continue their treatment for the required length of time, which then increases the chance that they will be infected with the drug- resistant form, which may take years (if it all possible) to rid from the patient using extremely expensive and toxic antibiotics.On Sep 2, 2009, at 8:40 AM, Ron Miller wrote:And, if you think that is worrisome, consider this.A "pandemic response bill" currently making its way through the Massachusetts state legislature would allow authorities to forcefully quarantine citizens in the event of a health emergency, compel health providers to vaccinate citizens, authorize forceful entry into private dwellings and destruction of citizen property and impose fines on citizens for noncompliance. If citizens refuse to comply with isolation or quarantine orders in the event of a health emergency, they may be imprisoned for up to 30 days and fined $1,000 per day that the violation continues.RON* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Diana R. Tomchick Associate Professor University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center Department of Biochemistry 5323 Harry Hines Blvd. Rm. ND10.214B Dallas, TX 75390-8816, U.S.A. Email: [email protected] 214-645-6383 (phone) 214-645-6353 (fax)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---I was at Paradise Canyon this past Friday visiting with the owner about some maps I made for him. The river is just like it was during last year's TCR. The flow is good, the river is clear, the grass is mostly green, and everything looks wonderful. The water is not flowing over the dam, but because of all the karst limestone in the area the water simply leaks around the dam like it always has, and all the springs along the shoreline are flowing at normal levels. They've also added warm water outdoor showers near the main rest room area. It should be a great weekend. And even if it rains I don't think anyone would complain. Kurt
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---Hooray for the showers, they will be welcomed. Ten words. Fritz ________________________________ From: Kurt L. Menking [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2009 9:09 AM To: [email protected] Subject: [Texascavers] Paradise Canyon I was at Paradise Canyon this past Friday visiting with the owner about some maps I made for him. The river is just like it was during last year's TCR. The flow is good, the river is clear, the grass is mostly green, and everything looks wonderful. The water is not flowing over the dam, but because of all the karst limestone in the area the water simply leaks around the dam like it always has, and all the springs along the shoreline are flowing at normal levels. They've also added warm water outdoor showers near the main rest room area. It should be a great weekend. And even if it rains I don't think anyone would complain. Kurt
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---It should be a great weekend. And even if it rains I don’t think anyone would complain. Just don't try to SCAN anyone.....or you will get lots of complaints!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- Thanks for the update Kurt. TCR should be really great this year. The water is looking good and things are shaping up nicely. I look forward to cavers showing up and having a good time. I can guarantee that we will not be using any RFID technology for registration, so no worries there.If you need directions to TCR, visit www.oztotl.com/tcr for information and directions. The dates are October 16-18, 2009. I hope everyone can make it out and enjoy a fun, relaxed event.See y'all there,Allan
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---Instead of "signing in" at registration, we could just use our thumb print..... -----Original Message----- From: John Brooks <[email protected]> Cc: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> Sent: Wed, Sep 2, 2009 11:12 am Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Paradise Canyon It should be a great weekend. And even if it rains I don’t think anyone would complain. Just don't try to SCAN anyone.....or you will get lots of complaints! --------------------------------------------------------------------- Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected] For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---John, That depends upon how much. October 1998 and July 2002, the Medina River got a little deep in places. If I remember correctly, the October 98 event was during the TCR which was held at Chalk Bluff. I wasn't in Texas yet but have heard about the TCR when the river came up quite a bit. I have folks that tell me the October 98 flood event was very localized and didn't impact the western Edwards Counties. I think some of the cavers would beg to differ. Geary -----Original Message----- From: John Brooks [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2009 11:13 AM Cc: <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Paradise Canyon It should be a great weekend. And even if it rains I don’t think anyone would complain. Just don't try to SCAN anyone.....or you will get lots of complaints! --------------------------------------------------------------------- Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected] For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---NOAA sez:NWS Austin/San Antonio, Texas
Introduction
During the early morning hours of June 21, 1997 through the evening of June 22, 1997, a subtropical storm system produced excessive rain over parts of south central and central Texas, particularly over the Hill Country. The heaviest rain fell over Bandera and Kendall Counties, where storm total amounts ranged from 15 to near 20 in, with the highest total of 19.72 in in eastern Bandera County. A few estimates exceeded 20 in, where gauges overflowed, and exact measurements were unknown. Another concentrated area of 12 to 18 in of rain fell over the northern Hill Country in portions of Mason, Kimble and Gillespie Counties. The result of the excessive rain was record flooding along stretches of the Llano River in Llano County. Major river flooding also occurred on the Frio, Nueces, Sabinal, Guadalupe, Lavaca, and Navidad rivers.
Heavy rain is not uncommon for central or south central Texas. It is part of the general climate of the area, where rainfall amounts vary considerably from east to west and year to year. Some notable heavy rains the area has experienced include an unofficial report of 48 in over a period of about 52 hr. in early August, 1978, resulting from the remnants of tropical storm Amelia and an upper-level disturbance. This rain fell near the town of Bluff, located northwest of San Antonio in the Texas Hill Country. A short-term heavy rainfall rate of 21.87 in in 2 hr, 45 min occurred in Medina County, just north of D'Hanis, in late May, 1935. On average, south Texas can expect on 20 in rainfall event and several 10 to 20 in events per year (Grice and Maddox )The 1978 event washed the Chevy dealership and the beer distributor in Bandera into Medina Lake. My old man found six-packs floating about 6" under the surface of the lake and he filled his fridge with them. He waited a month for the cerveza to calm down and for awhile he had a mess of free beer.
T
John,
That depends upon how much. October 1998 and July 2002, the Medina River got a little deep in places. If I remember correctly, the October 98 event was during the TCR which was held at Chalk Bluff. I wasn't in Texas yet but have heard about the TCR when the river came up quite a bit. I have folks that tell me the October 98 flood event was very localized and didn't impact the western Edwards Counties. I think some of the cavers would beg to differ.
Geary
-----Original Message-----
From: John Brooks [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2009 11:13 AM
Cc: <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Paradise Canyon
It should be a great weekend. And even if it rains I don’t think anyone would complain.
Just don't try to SCAN anyone.....or you will get lots of complaints!
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--- Begin Message ---About the middle of July, 2002, my daughters and I were camped in the one screened shelter at Neal's on the Frio River at Concan. On Saturday evening we made a fast trip to Foley's in far north San Antonio to meet the group for our first trip to Bracken to view the bat flight. It was an awesome sight. We then returned to Concan to conclude our enjoyable long weekend. The very next week is when the big flood hit the Frio Canyon, washing the shelter off of its foundation, wrecking concrete picnic tables and shutting down Neal's river campsites for the rest of the season and into the next. I assume that this is the same flood that hit the Medina River at this time. If the Medina River "Got a little deep in places", it must have rained "A little harder" a little further west. I'm glad that our reservation wasn't the following week. Fritz -----Original Message----- From: Geary Schindel [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2009 11:32 AM To: John Brooks Cc: <[email protected]> Subject: RE: [Texascavers] Paradise Canyon John, That depends upon how much. October 1998 and July 2002, the Medina River got a little deep in places. If I remember correctly, the October 98 event was during the TCR which was held at Chalk Bluff. I wasn't in Texas yet but have heard about the TCR when the river came up quite a bit. I have folks that tell me the October 98 flood event was very localized and didn't impact the western Edwards Counties. I think some of the cavers would beg to differ. Geary -----Original Message----- From: John Brooks [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2009 11:13 AM Cc: <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Paradise Canyon It should be a great weekend. And even if it rains I don't think anyone would complain. Just don't try to SCAN anyone.....or you will get lots of complaints! --------------------------------------------------------------------- Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected] For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---Why not the middle finger? ________________________________ From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2009 11:22 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Paradise Canyon Instead of "signing in" at registration, we could just use our thumb print..... -----Original Message----- From: John Brooks <[email protected]> Cc: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> Sent: Wed, Sep 2, 2009 11:12 am Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Paradise Canyon It should be a great weekend. And even if it rains I don't think anyone would complain. Just don't try to SCAN anyone.....or you will get lots of complaints! --------------------------------------------------------------------- Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
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--- Begin Message ---I remember the 2002 flood as well. I had a caving trip planned to a property in Uvalde Co the weekend following the big rain. When I heard it was raining I started checking the USGS Concan stream gauge on the Frio. I watched it go from 5 feet above flood stage to 20, then 30, then 40, then it said 99. The next time I checked it said the gauge was out of service. The flood ripped the gauge apart and sent it down river. I had to cancel the caving trip because we couldn't get anywhere near the property. Kurt -----Original Message----- From: Fritz Holt [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2009 1:23 PM To: Geary Schindel; John Brooks Cc: <[email protected]>; Mandy Holt; Holt, Jenny Subject: RE: [Texascavers] Paradise Canyon About the middle of July, 2002, my daughters and I were camped in the one screened shelter at Neal's on the Frio River at Concan. On Saturday evening we made a fast trip to Foley's in far north San Antonio to meet the group for our first trip to Bracken to view the bat flight. It was an awesome sight. We then returned to Concan to conclude our enjoyable long weekend. The very next week is when the big flood hit the Frio Canyon, washing the shelter off of its foundation, wrecking concrete picnic tables and shutting down Neal's river campsites for the rest of the season and into the next. I assume that this is the same flood that hit the Medina River at this time. If the Medina River "Got a little deep in places", it must have rained "A little harder" a little further west. I'm glad that our reservation wasn't the following week. Fritz
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