You know Linda, your disdain for me is evident. That's fine. However, when when dies or donations as well as volunteering are needed in this community, I'm one of the first and frequent participants. That is accepted with open arms. We are a melting pot community of mostly misfits. It stands to reason that our members, mostly having endured the actions of those who seem themselves stronger, smarter, faster or simply better than others, would have an enhanced tolerance, compassion or even empathy for other minded individuals. After all many misfits rise to wonderful circumstance due partly to their ability to accept things that differ from their view. I am a rightwing, warmongering, Christian, survivalist surrounded largely by a liberal population in this community. Their are only a handful of folks that find it necessary to gang up on someone like me and allow a debate to escalate to the standard of an argument. You would have never considered posting a comment, save one of agreement, regarding Charles post had I not posted my rebuttal. When you chastened me, as an after thought you included the other two parties. If you don't like me, that's fine, I don't hang my hat on your opinion. But looking for ways to attempt to belittle me is petty. I've been monitoring the posts since last I was told to stick to caving related posts or there would be monitors to see to it. It seems that this rule only applies to a few of us, as I have refrained from any posts and have seen no change in the activity of non cave related conversations. Until I once again post something contrary to some peoples beliefs. It might surprise you how many people in the caving community agree with many of my observations and view points and most at least have the decency to hear me out and I reciprocate. When person's lay and wait to jump on any opportunity to lay in to someone, on my estimation that person has beyond the scope of common consideration and has become a bully. If you stand firm to the bully, his buddies come to aid, if you stand firm to them, you might get persecuted in that group. But if their money is God's enough to accept and their time volunteering is good enough to accept then by God you should be adult enough treat them with respect and at the very least keep your comments in the peanut gallery, like every mother has instructed their children to do. I have never had a desire to be where I'm unwanted and I assure you if I wasn't wanted among cavers, I would be gone. So maybe the problem doesn't lie with me. This is a caving related post as I'm sure all other rightwing, warmongering, Christian, survivalist among us feel the same way and just didn't want rock the bigot boat. Now it's out in the open, so I propose we start concentrating on our commonality. For instance I've noticed a large percentage of my liberal caving friends are gun toting, independents with some Republican tendencies. Thank you all for your ear. Peace
On Fri, Apr 27, 2018, 1:07 PM Linda Palit <linda.k.pa...@gmail.com> wrote: > OK. Whatever. > On Fri, Apr 27, 2018 at 11:58 AM Michael Gibbons <6453...@gmail.com> > wrote: > >> I didn't get angry at anything Linda. This is how it starts every time >> and then you folks blame me. >> This is my forum as much as it is yours. >> All I did is post a view point I'm aligned with. >> If that effects your sensibilities then perhaps you need to re evaluate >> your social skills. >> >> On Fri, Apr 27, 2018, 11:47 AM Linda Palit <linda.k.pa...@gmail.com> >> wrote: >> >>> MJ, why do you do this. You just get angry when people disagree with >>> you. >>> And especially, why do this here? This is a caving forum. >>> Same to Charlie and David. >>> caving forum. >>> >>> Linda >>> >>> On Fri, Apr 27, 2018 at 11:24 AM Michael Gibbons <6453...@gmail.com> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Chicken Little, the sky is not falling. Just a bit of fog. >>>> Home <http://friendsofscience.org/> | Site Map >>>> <https://friendsofscience.org/index.php?id=12> | About Us >>>> <https://friendsofscience.org/index.php?id=1> | News >>>> <https://friendsofscience.org/index.php?id=1893> | Contact >>>> <https://friendsofscience.org/index.php?id=144> | Donate >>>> <https://friendsofscience.org/index.php?id=160> | Search >>>> <https://friendsofscience.org/index.php?id=387> >>>> >>>> [image: Friends of Science] >>>> >>>> The minute you begin to believe your own hypothesis, you're a dead duck >>>> as a scientist. >>>> >>>> Frank Beales - former U. of Toronto Professor >>>> >>>> - Home <https://friendsofscience.org/> >>>> - About Us <https://friendsofscience.org/index.php?id=1> >>>> - News And Events <https://friendsofscience.org/index.php?id=2324> >>>> - Our Most Recent Articles >>>> <https://friendsofscience.org/index.php?id=1899> >>>> - Membership & Donation >>>> <https://friendsofscience.org/index.php?id=160> >>>> - Climate Science <https://friendsofscience.org/index.php?id=194> >>>> - Policies, Economics & Ethics >>>> <https://friendsofscience.org/index.php?id=2327> >>>> - Video / Audio <https://friendsofscience.org/index.php?id=2> >>>> - Friends Of Science Blog <http://blog.friendsofscience.org/> >>>> - ClimateChange101 <http://www.climatechange101.ca/> >>>> - Friends Of Science YouTube >>>> <https://www.youtube.com/user/FriendsofScience> >>>> - Scientific References >>>> <https://friendsofscience.org/index.php?id=8> >>>> - Website Links <https://friendsofscience.org/index.php?id=173> >>>> - Contact Us <https://friendsofscience.org/index.php?id=144> >>>> >>>> RSS <https://friendsofscience.org/index.php?id=768> >>>> Global Temperatures[image: Global Troposphere Temperatures Average] >>>> <https://friendsofscience.org/assets/documents/FOS%20Essay/GlobalTroposphereTemperaturesAverage.jpg>Click >>>> Here For Full Size []] >>>> <https://friendsofscience.org/assets/documents/FOS%20Essay/GlobalTroposphereTemperaturesAverage.jpg> >>>> <https://plus.google.com/107223614051282826396> >>>> PROVIDING INSIGHT >>>> INTO CLIMATE CHANGE >>>> MYTHS / FACTS >>>> >>>> COMMON MISCONCEPTIONS ABOUT GLOBAL WARMING >>>> >>>> *MYTH 1: Global temperatures are rising at a rapid, unprecedented >>>> rate.* >>>> >>>> FACT: The HadCRUT4 surface temperature index, produced by the Hadley >>>> Centre of the UK Met Office and the Climate Research Unit of the University >>>> of East Anglia, shows warming to 1878, cooling to 1911, warming to 1941, >>>> cooling to 1964, warming to 1998 and cooling through 2011. The warming rate >>>> from 1964 to 1998 was the same as the previous warming from 1911 to 1941. >>>> Satellites, weather balloons and ground stations all show cooling from 2002 >>>> through mid 2015, then this warming pause ended with a large El Nino event >>>> starting late 2015. The average of two analysis of satellite data gives a >>>> trend from 1979 to Nov. 2017 of 0.13 ºC/decade, which is less than half of >>>> the corresponding trend of 0.27 ºC/decade of the climate models. The mild >>>> warming of about 0.7 ºC over the 20th century is well within the natural >>>> variations recorded in the last millennium. The ground station network >>>> suffers from an uneven distribution across the globe; the stations are >>>> preferentially located in growing urban and industrial areas ("heat >>>> islands"), which show substantially higher readings than adjacent rural >>>> areas ("land use effects"). Two science teams have shown that correcting >>>> the surface temperature record for the effects of urban development would >>>> reduce the reported warming trend over land from 1980 by half. See *here >>>> <https://friendsofscience.org/index.php?id=711#UHI>*. >>>> >>>> There has been no catastrophic warming recorded. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> *MYTH 2: The "hockey stick" graph proves that the earth has >>>> experienced a steady, very gradual temperature decrease for 1000 years, >>>> then recently began a sudden increase.* >>>> >>>> FACT: Significant changes in climate have continually occurred >>>> throughout geologic time. For instance, the Medieval Warm Period, from >>>> around 1000 to1200 AD (when the Vikings farmed on Greenland) was followed >>>> by a period known as the Little Ice Age. Since the end of the 17th Century >>>> the "average global temperature" has been rising at the low steady rate >>>> mentioned above; although from 1940 – 1970 temperatures actually dropped, >>>> leading to a Global Cooling scare. >>>> >>>> The "hockey stick", a poster boy of both the UN's IPCC and Canada's >>>> Environment Department, ignores historical recorded climatic swings, and >>>> has now also been proven to be flawed and statistically unreliable as well. >>>> It is a computer construct and a faulty one at that. See *here >>>> <https://friendsofscience.org/index.php?id=711>* for more information. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> *MYTH 3: Human produced carbon dioxide has increased over the last 100 >>>> years, adding to the Greenhouse effect, thus causing most of the earth's >>>> warming of the last 100 years.* >>>> >>>> FACT: Carbon dioxide levels have indeed changed for various reasons, >>>> human and otherwise, just as they have throughout geologic time. Since the >>>> beginning of the industrial revolution, the CO2 content of the >>>> atmosphere has increased by about 120 part per million (ppm), most of which >>>> is likely due to human-caused CO2 emissions. The RATE of growth during this >>>> century has been about 0.55%/year. However, there is no proof that CO2 is >>>> the main driver of global warming. As measured in ice cores dated over many >>>> thousands of years, CO2levels move up and down AFTER the temperature >>>> has done so, and thus are the RESULT OF, NOT THE CAUSE of warming. >>>> Geological field work in recent sediments confirms this causal >>>> relationship. There is solid evidence that, as temperatures move up and >>>> down naturally and cyclically through solar radiation, orbital and galactic >>>> influences, the warming surface layers of the earth's oceans expel more CO >>>> 2 as a result. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> *MYTH 4: CO2 is the most common greenhouse gas.* >>>> >>>> FACT: Greenhouse gases form about 3% of the atmosphere by volume. They >>>> consist of varying amounts, (about 97%) of water vapour and clouds, with >>>> the remainder being gases like CO2, CH4, Ozone and N2O, of which >>>> carbon dioxide is the largest amount. Hence, CO2 constitutes about >>>> 0.04% of the atmosphere. While the minor gases are more effective as >>>> "greenhouse agents" than water vapour and clouds, the latter are >>>> overwhelming the effect by their sheer volume and – in the end – are >>>> thought to be responsible for 75% of the "Greenhouse effect". (See here >>>> <https://friendsofscience.org/assets/documents/FOS%20Essay/CO2_Versus_Water.html>) >>>> At current concentrations, a 3% change of water vapour in the atmosphere >>>> would have the same effect as a 100% change in CO2. >>>> >>>> Those attributing climate change to CO2 rarely mention these important >>>> facts. >>>> >>>> >>>> *MYTH 5: Computer models verify that CO2 increases will cause >>>> significant global warming.* >>>> >>>> FACT: The computer models assume that CO2 is the primary climate >>>> driver, and that the Sun has an insignificant effect on climate. Using the >>>> output of a model to verify its initial assumption is committing the >>>> logical fallacy of circular reasoning. Computer models can be made to >>>> roughly match the 20th century temperature rise by adjusting many input >>>> parameters and using strong positive feedbacks. They do not "prove" >>>> anything. Also, computer models predicting global warming are incapable of >>>> properly including the effects of the sun, cosmic rays and the clouds. The >>>> sun is a major cause of temperature variation on the earth surface as its >>>> received radiation changes all the time, This happens largely in cyclical >>>> fashion. The number and the lengths in time of sunspots can be correlated >>>> very closely with average temperatures on earth, e.g. the Little Ice Age >>>> and the Medieval Warm Period. Varying intensity of solar heat radiation >>>> affects the surface temperature of the oceans and the currents. Warmer >>>> ocean water expels gases, some of which are CO2. Solar radiation interferes >>>> with the cosmic ray flux, thus influencing the amount ionized nuclei which >>>> control cloud cover. >>>> >>>> >>>> *MYTH 6: The United Nations' Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change >>>> (IPCC) has proven that man–made CO2 causes global warming.* >>>> >>>> FACT: In a 1996 report by the UN on global warming, two statements >>>> were deleted from the final draft approved and accepted by a panel of >>>> scientists. Here they are: >>>> 1) “None of the studies cited above has shown clear evidence that >>>> we can attribute the observed climate changes to increases in greenhouse >>>> gases.” >>>> 2) “No study to date has positively attributed all or part of the >>>> climate change to man–made causes” >>>> >>>> To the present day there is still no scientific proof that man-made CO2 >>>> causes significant global warming. >>>> >>>> See a Wall Street Journal article here >>>> <http://stephenschneider.stanford.edu/Publications/PDF_Papers/WSJ_June12.pdf> >>>> . >>>> >>>> >>>> *MYTH 7: CO2 is a pollutant.* >>>> >>>> FACT: This is absolutely not true. Nitrogen forms 80% of our >>>> atmosphere. We could not live in 100% nitrogen either. Carbon dioxide is no >>>> more a pollutant than nitrogen is. CO2 is essential to life on earth. It >>>> is necessary for plant growth since increased CO2 intake as a result of >>>> increased atmospheric concentration causes many trees and other plants to >>>> grow more vigorously. Unfortunately, the Canadian Government has included >>>> CO2 with a number of truly toxic and noxious substances listed by the >>>> Environmental Protection Act, only as their means to politically control >>>> it. The graph *here >>>> <https://friendsofscience.org/assets/documents/FOS%20Essay/Donohue_GRL_May2013.jpg>* >>>> shows >>>> changes in vegetative cover due to CO2 fertilization between 1982 and 2010 >>>> (Donohue et al., 2013 GRL). A major study *here >>>> <http://www.co2science.org/education/reports/co2benefits/co2benefits.php>* >>>> shows >>>> that CO2 fertilization will likely increase the value of crop >>>> production between now and 2050 by an additional *$11.7 trillion* ($US >>>> 2014). See *here <https://friendsofscience.org/index.php?id=713>* for >>>> more discussion. >>>> >>>> >>>> *MYTH 8: Global warming will cause more storms and other weather >>>> extremes.* >>>> >>>> FACT: There is no scientific or statistical evidence whatsoever that >>>> supports such claims on a global scale. Regional variations may occur. >>>> Growing insurance and infrastructure repair costs, particularly in coastal >>>> areas, are sometimes claimed to be the result of increasing frequency and >>>> severity of storms, whereas in reality they are a function of increasing >>>> population density, escalating development value, and ever more media >>>> reporting. See *here >>>> <https://friendsofscience.org/index.php?id=712#Severe_Weather>* for >>>> graphs and discussion of extreme weather. >>>> >>>> >>>> *MYTH 9: Receding glaciers and the calving of ice shelves are proof of >>>> man-made global warming.* >>>> >>>> FACT: Glaciers have been receding and growing cyclically for hundreds >>>> of years. Recent glacier melting is a consequence of coming out of the very >>>> cool period of the Little Ice Age. Ice shelves have been breaking off for >>>> centuries. Scientists know of at least 33 periods of glaciers growing and >>>> then retreating. It’s normal. Besides, changes to glacier's extent is >>>> dependent as much on precipitation as on temperature. >>>> >>>> >>>> * MYTH 10: The earth’s poles are warming and the polar ice caps are >>>> breaking up and melting.* >>>> >>>> FACT: The earth is variable. The Arctic Region had warmed from 1966 to >>>> 2005, due to cyclic events in the Pacific Ocean and soot from Asia >>>> darkening the ice, but there has been no warming since 2005. Current >>>> temperatures are the same as in 1943. The small Palmer Peninsula of >>>> Antarctica is getting warmer, while the main Antarctic continent is >>>> actually cooling. Ice cap thicknesses in both Greenland and Antarctica are >>>> increasing. North polar temperature graph here >>>> <https://friendsofscience.org/assets/images/North_pole_UAH_2005.jpg>. >>>> South polar temperature graph here >>>> <https://friendsofscience.org/assets/documents/South_Polar_Temperature_UAH.jpg>. >>>> See here <https://friendsofscience.org/index.php?id=192> for sea ice >>>> extent. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> More FACTS and MYTHS? See what Professor deFreitas has to say. Click >>>> here <https://friendsofscience.org/assets/documents/deFreitas.pdf>. >>>> >>>> ABOUT US <https://friendsofscience.org/index.php?id=1> | NEWS >>>> <https://friendsofscience.org/index.php?id=1893> | ARTICLES >>>> <https://friendsofscience.org/index.php?id=194> | VIDEO / AUDIO >>>> <https://friendsofscience.org/index.php?id=2> | MYTHS / FACTS >>>> <https://friendsofscience.org/index.php?id=3> | BACKGROUND >>>> <https://friendsofscience.org/index.php?id=234> >>>> HOME <https://friendsofscience.org/index.php?id=694> | SITE MAP >>>> <https://friendsofscience.org/index.php?id=12> | CONTACT >>>> <https://friendsofscience.org/index.php?id=144> >>>> >>>> web design & development by: <http://commerx.com/> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Fri, Apr 27, 2018, 11:07 AM Charles Loving <lovingi...@gmail.com> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> >>>>> 'We're doomed': Mayer Hillman on the climate reality no one else will >>>>> dare mention >>>>> https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/apr/26 >>>>> /were-doomed-mayer-hillman-on-the-climate-reality-no-one-else-will-dare-mention?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other >>>>> >>>>> On Thu, Apr 26, 2018 at 10:58 PM, David <dlocklea...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> From David Locklear >>>>>> ( Hit Delete Button as hard as you can ) >>>>>> >>>>>> Most of you are into nature topics. >>>>>> >>>>>> I saw a cow eat a large snake today. Not only did he or she seem to >>>>>> enjoy eating the snake, but acted like it was a routine thing that he or >>>>>> she does. >>>>>> >>>>>> The article in the link below discusses DNA of bovines. >>>>>> >>>>>> Some say, we are what we eat. Maybe eating snakes affects ones DNA >>>>>> ? It would seem that if cows routinely eat snakes, then all other such >>>>>> mammals also like to eat snakes. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> http://phenomena.nationalgeographic.com/2013/01/01/how-a-quarter-of-the-cow-genome-came-from-snakes/ >>>>>> >>>>>> There is probably someway to twist this discussion and make it cave >>>>>> related. I will let someone else have a go at that. There are mammals >>>>>> that spend a lot of time in caves and snakes do like to hang out near >>>>>> cave >>>>>> entrances. >>>>>> >>>>>> I bet it is not healthy for any animal to eat a venomous snake. >>>>>> >>>>>> David Locklear >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com >>>>>> Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: >>>>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ >>>>>> http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Charlie Loving >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com >>>>> Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: >>>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ >>>>> http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com >>>> Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: >>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ >>>> http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com >>> Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: >>> http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ >>> http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com >> Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: >> http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ >> http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers >> > _______________________________________________ > Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com > Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: > http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ > http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers >
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