Do us a favor and PM the folks you’re arguing with. The listserve does not need
any of this drivel from anyone.
Jerry Atkinson.
Sent from my iPhone
> On Apr 27, 2018, at 2:01 PM, Michael Gibbons <6453...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> You know Linda, your disdain for me is evident. That's fine. However, when
> when dies or donations as well as volunteering are needed in this community,
> I'm one of the first and frequent participants.
> That is accepted with open arms.
> We are a melting pot community of mostly misfits. It stands to reason that
> our members, mostly having endured the actions of those who seem themselves
> stronger, smarter, faster or simply better than others, would have an
> enhanced tolerance, compassion or even empathy for other minded individuals.
> After all many misfits rise to wonderful circumstance due partly to their
> ability to accept things that differ from their view.
> I am a rightwing, warmongering, Christian, survivalist surrounded largely by
> a liberal population in this community.
> Their are only a handful of folks that find it necessary to gang up on
> someone like me and allow a debate to escalate to the standard of an
> argument.
> You would have never considered posting a comment, save one of agreement,
> regarding Charles post had I not posted my rebuttal. When you chastened me,
> as an after thought you included the other two parties.
> If you don't like me, that's fine, I don't hang my hat on your opinion. But
> looking for ways to attempt to belittle me is petty.
> I've been monitoring the posts since last I was told to stick to caving
> related posts or there would be monitors to see to it.
> It seems that this rule only applies to a few of us, as I have refrained from
> any posts and have seen no change in the activity of non cave related
> conversations. Until I once again post something contrary to some peoples
> beliefs.
> It might surprise you how many people in the caving community agree with many
> of my observations and view points and most at least have the decency to hear
> me out and I reciprocate.
> When person's lay and wait to jump on any opportunity to lay in to someone,
> on my estimation that person has beyond the scope of common consideration and
> has become a bully. If you stand firm to the bully, his buddies come to aid,
> if you stand firm to them, you might get persecuted in that group.
> But if their money is God's enough to accept and their time volunteering is
> good enough to accept then by God you should be adult enough treat them with
> respect and at the very least keep your comments in the peanut gallery, like
> every mother has instructed their children to do.
> I have never had a desire to be where I'm unwanted and I assure you if I
> wasn't wanted among cavers, I would be gone. So maybe the problem doesn't lie
> with me.
> This is a caving related post as I'm sure all other rightwing, warmongering,
> Christian, survivalist among us feel the same way and just didn't want rock
> the bigot boat.
> Now it's out in the open, so I propose we start concentrating on our
> commonality.
> For instance I've noticed a large percentage of my liberal caving friends are
> gun toting, independents with some Republican tendencies.
> Thank you all for your ear.
> Peace
>
>> On Fri, Apr 27, 2018, 1:07 PM Linda Palit <linda.k.pa...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> OK. Whatever.
>>> On Fri, Apr 27, 2018 at 11:58 AM Michael Gibbons <6453...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> I didn't get angry at anything Linda. This is how it starts every time and
>>> then you folks blame me.
>>> This is my forum as much as it is yours.
>>> All I did is post a view point I'm aligned with.
>>> If that effects your sensibilities then perhaps you need to re evaluate
>>> your social skills.
>>>
>>>> On Fri, Apr 27, 2018, 11:47 AM Linda Palit <linda.k.pa...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> MJ, why do you do this. You just get angry when people disagree with you.
>>>> And especially, why do this here? This is a caving forum.
>>>> Same to Charlie and David.
>>>> caving forum.
>>>>
>>>> Linda
>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, Apr 27, 2018 at 11:24 AM Michael Gibbons <6453...@gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> Chicken Little, the sky is not falling. Just a bit of fog.
>>>>> Home | Site Map | About Us | News | Contact | Donate | Search
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> The minute you begin to believe your own hypothesis, you're a dead duck
>>>>> as a scientist.
>>>>> Frank Beales - former U. of Toronto Professor
>>>>> Home
>>>>> About Us
>>>>> News And Events
>>>>> Our Most Recent Articles
>>>>> Membership & Donation
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>>>>> Website Links
>>>>> Contact Us
>>>>> RSS
>>>>> Global Temperatures
>>>>> Click Here For Full Size []]
>>>>>
>>>>> PROVIDING INSIGHT
>>>>> INTO CLIMATE CHANGE
>>>>> MYTHS / FACTS
>>>>> COMMON MISCONCEPTIONS ABOUT GLOBAL WARMING
>>>>> MYTH 1: Global temperatures are rising at a rapid, unprecedented rate.
>>>>> FACT: The HadCRUT4 surface temperature index, produced by the Hadley
>>>>> Centre of the UK Met Office and the Climate Research Unit of the
>>>>> University of East Anglia, shows warming to 1878, cooling to 1911,
>>>>> warming to 1941, cooling to 1964, warming to 1998 and cooling through
>>>>> 2011. The warming rate from 1964 to 1998 was the same as the previous
>>>>> warming from 1911 to 1941. Satellites, weather balloons and ground
>>>>> stations all show cooling from 2002 through mid 2015, then this warming
>>>>> pause ended with a large El Nino event starting late 2015. The average of
>>>>> two analysis of satellite data gives a trend from 1979 to Nov. 2017 of
>>>>> 0.13 ºC/decade, which is less than half of the corresponding trend of
>>>>> 0.27 ºC/decade of the climate models. The mild warming of about 0.7 ºC
>>>>> over the 20th century is well within the natural variations recorded in
>>>>> the last millennium. The ground station network suffers from an uneven
>>>>> distribution across the globe; the stations are preferentially located in
>>>>> growing urban and industrial areas ("heat islands"), which show
>>>>> substantially higher readings than adjacent rural areas ("land use
>>>>> effects"). Two science teams have shown that correcting the surface
>>>>> temperature record for the effects of urban development would reduce the
>>>>> reported warming trend over land from 1980 by half. See here.
>>>>> There has been no catastrophic warming recorded.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> MYTH 2: The "hockey stick" graph proves that the earth has experienced a
>>>>> steady, very gradual temperature decrease for 1000 years, then recently
>>>>> began a sudden increase.
>>>>> FACT: Significant changes in climate have continually occurred
>>>>> throughout geologic time. For instance, the Medieval Warm Period, from
>>>>> around 1000 to1200 AD (when the Vikings farmed on Greenland) was followed
>>>>> by a period known as the Little Ice Age. Since the end of the 17th
>>>>> Century the "average global temperature" has been rising at the low
>>>>> steady rate mentioned above; although from 1940 – 1970 temperatures
>>>>> actually dropped, leading to a Global Cooling scare.
>>>>> The "hockey stick", a poster boy of both the UN's IPCC and Canada's
>>>>> Environment Department, ignores historical recorded climatic swings, and
>>>>> has now also been proven to be flawed and statistically unreliable as
>>>>> well. It is a computer construct and a faulty one at that. See here for
>>>>> more information.
>>>>>
>>>>> MYTH 3: Human produced carbon dioxide has increased over the last 100
>>>>> years, adding to the Greenhouse effect, thus causing most of the earth's
>>>>> warming of the last 100 years.
>>>>> FACT: Carbon dioxide levels have indeed changed for various reasons,
>>>>> human and otherwise, just as they have throughout geologic time. Since
>>>>> the beginning of the industrial revolution, the CO2 content of the
>>>>> atmosphere has increased by about 120 part per million (ppm), most of
>>>>> which is likely due to human-caused CO2 emissions. The RATE of growth
>>>>> during this century has been about 0.55%/year. However, there is no proof
>>>>> that CO2 is the main driver of global warming. As measured in ice cores
>>>>> dated over many thousands of years, CO2levels move up and down AFTER the
>>>>> temperature has done so, and thus are the RESULT OF, NOT THE CAUSE of
>>>>> warming. Geological field work in recent sediments confirms this causal
>>>>> relationship. There is solid evidence that, as temperatures move up and
>>>>> down naturally and cyclically through solar radiation, orbital and
>>>>> galactic influences, the warming surface layers of the earth's oceans
>>>>> expel more CO2 as a result.
>>>>>
>>>>> MYTH 4: CO2 is the most common greenhouse gas.
>>>>> FACT: Greenhouse gases form about 3% of the atmosphere by volume. They
>>>>> consist of varying amounts, (about 97%) of water vapour and clouds, with
>>>>> the remainder being gases like CO2, CH4, Ozone and N2O, of which carbon
>>>>> dioxide is the largest amount. Hence, CO2 constitutes about 0.04% of the
>>>>> atmosphere. While the minor gases are more effective as "greenhouse
>>>>> agents" than water vapour and clouds, the latter are overwhelming the
>>>>> effect by their sheer volume and – in the end – are thought to be
>>>>> responsible for 75% of the "Greenhouse effect". (See here) At current
>>>>> concentrations, a 3% change of water vapour in the atmosphere would have
>>>>> the same effect as a 100% change in CO2.
>>>>> Those attributing climate change to CO2 rarely mention these important
>>>>> facts.
>>>>>
>>>>> MYTH 5: Computer models verify that CO2 increases will cause significant
>>>>> global warming.
>>>>> FACT: The computer models assume that CO2 is the primary climate driver,
>>>>> and that the Sun has an insignificant effect on climate. Using the output
>>>>> of a model to verify its initial assumption is committing the logical
>>>>> fallacy of circular reasoning. Computer models can be made to roughly
>>>>> match the 20th century temperature rise by adjusting many input
>>>>> parameters and using strong positive feedbacks. They do not "prove"
>>>>> anything. Also, computer models predicting global warming are incapable
>>>>> of properly including the effects of the sun, cosmic rays and the clouds.
>>>>> The sun is a major cause of temperature variation on the earth surface as
>>>>> its received radiation changes all the time, This happens largely in
>>>>> cyclical fashion. The number and the lengths in time of sunspots can be
>>>>> correlated very closely with average temperatures on earth, e.g. the
>>>>> Little Ice Age and the Medieval Warm Period. Varying intensity of solar
>>>>> heat radiation affects the surface temperature of the oceans and the
>>>>> currents. Warmer ocean water expels gases, some of which are CO2. Solar
>>>>> radiation interferes with the cosmic ray flux, thus influencing the
>>>>> amount ionized nuclei which control cloud cover.
>>>>>
>>>>> MYTH 6: The United Nations' Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change
>>>>> (IPCC) has proven that man–made CO2 causes global warming.
>>>>> FACT: In a 1996 report by the UN on global warming, two statements were
>>>>> deleted from the final draft approved and accepted by a panel of
>>>>> scientists. Here they are:
>>>>> 1) “None of the studies cited above has shown clear evidence that we
>>>>> can attribute the observed climate changes to increases in greenhouse
>>>>> gases.”
>>>>> 2) “No study to date has positively attributed all or part of the
>>>>> climate change to man–made causes”
>>>>> To the present day there is still no scientific proof that man-made CO2
>>>>> causes significant global warming.
>>>>> See a Wall Street Journal article here.
>>>>>
>>>>> MYTH 7: CO2 is a pollutant.
>>>>> FACT: This is absolutely not true. Nitrogen forms 80% of our atmosphere.
>>>>> We could not live in 100% nitrogen either. Carbon dioxide is no more a
>>>>> pollutant than nitrogen is. CO2 is essential to life on earth. It is
>>>>> necessary for plant growth since increased CO2 intake as a result of
>>>>> increased atmospheric concentration causes many trees and other plants to
>>>>> grow more vigorously. Unfortunately, the Canadian Government has included
>>>>> CO2 with a number of truly toxic and noxious substances listed by the
>>>>> Environmental Protection Act, only as their means to politically control
>>>>> it. The graph here shows changes in vegetative cover due to CO2
>>>>> fertilization between 1982 and 2010 (Donohue et al., 2013 GRL). A major
>>>>> study here shows that CO2 fertilization will likely increase the value of
>>>>> crop production between now and 2050 by an additional $11.7 trillion ($US
>>>>> 2014). See here for more discussion.
>>>>>
>>>>> MYTH 8: Global warming will cause more storms and other weather extremes.
>>>>> FACT: There is no scientific or statistical evidence whatsoever that
>>>>> supports such claims on a global scale. Regional variations may occur.
>>>>> Growing insurance and infrastructure repair costs, particularly in
>>>>> coastal areas, are sometimes claimed to be the result of increasing
>>>>> frequency and severity of storms, whereas in reality they are a function
>>>>> of increasing population density, escalating development value, and ever
>>>>> more media reporting. See here for graphs and discussion of extreme
>>>>> weather.
>>>>>
>>>>> MYTH 9: Receding glaciers and the calving of ice shelves are proof of
>>>>> man-made global warming.
>>>>> FACT: Glaciers have been receding and growing cyclically for hundreds
>>>>> of years. Recent glacier melting is a consequence of coming out of the
>>>>> very cool period of the Little Ice Age. Ice shelves have been breaking
>>>>> off for centuries. Scientists know of at least 33 periods of glaciers
>>>>> growing and then retreating. It’s normal. Besides, changes to glacier's
>>>>> extent is dependent as much on precipitation as on temperature.
>>>>>
>>>>> MYTH 10: The earth’s poles are warming and the polar ice caps are
>>>>> breaking up and melting.
>>>>> FACT: The earth is variable. The Arctic Region had warmed from 1966 to
>>>>> 2005, due to cyclic events in the Pacific Ocean and soot from Asia
>>>>> darkening the ice, but there has been no warming since 2005. Current
>>>>> temperatures are the same as in 1943. The small Palmer Peninsula of
>>>>> Antarctica is getting warmer, while the main Antarctic continent is
>>>>> actually cooling. Ice cap thicknesses in both Greenland and Antarctica
>>>>> are increasing. North polar temperature graph here. South polar
>>>>> temperature graph here. See here for sea ice extent.
>>>>>
>>>>> More FACTS and MYTHS? See what Professor deFreitas has to say. Click
>>>>> here.
>>>>>
>>>>> ABOUT US | NEWS | ARTICLES | VIDEO / AUDIO | MYTHS / FACTS | BACKGROUND
>>>>> HOME | SITE MAP | CONTACT
>>>>>
>>>>> web design & development by:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Fri, Apr 27, 2018, 11:07 AM Charles Loving <lovingi...@gmail.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 'We're doomed': Mayer Hillman on the climate reality no one else will
>>>>>> dare mention
>>>>>> https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/apr/26/were-doomed-mayer-hillman-on-the-climate-reality-no-one-else-will-dare-mention?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Thu, Apr 26, 2018 at 10:58 PM, David <dlocklea...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> From David Locklear
>>>>>>> ( Hit Delete Button as hard as you can )
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Most of you are into nature topics.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I saw a cow eat a large snake today. Not only did he or she seem to
>>>>>>> enjoy eating the snake, but acted like it was a routine thing that he
>>>>>>> or she does.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The article in the link below discusses DNA of bovines.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Some say, we are what we eat. Maybe eating snakes affects ones DNA ?
>>>>>>> It would seem that if cows routinely eat snakes, then all other such
>>>>>>> mammals also like to eat snakes.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://phenomena.nationalgeographic.com/2013/01/01/how-a-quarter-of-the-cow-genome-came-from-snakes/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> There is probably someway to twist this discussion and make it cave
>>>>>>> related. I will let someone else have a go at that. There are mammals
>>>>>>> that spend a lot of time in caves and snakes do like to hang out near
>>>>>>> cave entrances.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I bet it is not healthy for any animal to eat a venomous snake.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> David Locklear
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>> http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Charlie Loving
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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