Pranam
"sitting outside the temple" of ARR is as usual assuming NETI NETI denial,
demanding proof for such from Vedas and according one yes from Sri Rama.
Even I said that ARR could be correct and there can be many reasons for
such acts. However AS PARKINSON'S LAW IS STATED arguments are going be so
wide only upto that water level.
Vedas and other upa angas etc did not say that marriage shall be performed
as we are doing today in many regions and the earth. The procedural section
is adopted from the theory spoken in Vedas. The procedures have many
variations hence only many smrithis we come across. Prarthana or Prayers
and Pujas can be by many methods as one wishes and as ascertained from
various formats of the ancestral methods. There is a Bhagavathy puja which
is not written in any Vedas; mere pushpam, palam thoyam is spoken. So
Temple is a concept that arose out of the agama sastra which has not
enmanated out of the vedas; but the basic principle of deity and the
characters sketched are adopted in the structure of the temples, which came
only in 1100 BCE. Temples spoken before were some kind of open space with
some kind of idols as spoken in many treatises.
The *Agamas* : आगम, are a collection of several Tantric
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tantras_(Hinduism)> literature and scriptures
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_text> of Hindu
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hindu> schools.]
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agama_(Hinduism)#cite_note-juliuslipner27-2> The
term literally means tradition or "that which has come down", and the Agama
texts describe cosmology, epistemology, philosophical doctrines, precepts
on meditation and practices, four kinds of yoga, mantras, temple
construction, deity worship and ways to attain sixfold desires. These
canonical texts are in Tamil <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tamil_language>
and Sanskrit <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanskrit>. Agamas were
predominant in South India <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_India> but
Sanskritized later. The three main branches of Agama texts are Shaiva
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shaivism>, Vaishnava
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaishnavism>, and Shakta
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shaktism>. The Agamic traditions are
sometimes called Tantrism <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tantrism>, although
the term "Tantra" is usually used specifically to refer to Shakta Agamas.[8]
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agama_(Hinduism)#cite_note-Banerji-8>[9]
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agama_(Hinduism)#cite_note-dhavamony-9> The
Agama literature is voluminous, and includes 28 Shaiva Agamas, 64 Shakta
Agamas (also called Tantras), and 108 Vaishnava Agamas (also called
Pancharatra <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pancharatra> Samhitas), and
numerous Upa-Agamas. *The origin and chronology of Agamas is unclear. *Some
are in-line with the Vedic and others non-Vedic. Some suggest that these *are
post-Vedic texts,* others as pre-Vedic compositions dating back to over
1100 BCE. { THE PHILOSOPHICAL TRADITIONS OF INDIA P T RAJU AMAZON
IN } Epigraphical
and archaeological evidence suggests that Agama texts were in existence by
about the middle of the 1st millennium CE, in the Pallava dynasty
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pallava_dynasty> era. Scholars note that
some passages in the Hindu <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hindu> Agama
texts appear to repudiate the authority of the Vedas
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veda>, while other passages assert that
their precepts reveal the true spirit of the Vedas. Thus the temple
worship is structured parallel to our BODY. The garbhagriha, Prakarams
artha mandapams are all equated to our body. The worship in a temple is to
get the power of shakthi passed through our body. Pradakshinam is one
concept from the above absorptions. The place where normally one sits is in
prakarams which is OUR LEG PART. Sitting is the resting the legs on the
leg part of the temple.
2 There are dos and don'ts to do in a temple in Varaha puranam " 38
38 Varaha Deva describes ‘Aparadhas’ (Offences) to be avoided
Having narrated the causes of grief or joy to Bhu Devi, Bhagavan Varaha
described certain ‘Aparadhas’ to be avoided in one’s mundane life. No
doubt, symbolic eating of Bhagavan’s Prasad by humans is not disapproved
but offering ‘Bhog’ not suitable to be offered to Devas is unpardonable.
In fact, offering of that kind of ‘Bhojan’ or food which is unfit for
consumption to anybody is considered as an ‘Aparadh’.
Going near to a person without ‘Dantadhavan’or cleaning teeth, tongue and
face especially if the person is performing‘Dharmik Karma’ or a Virtuous
Deed is considered as second ‘Aparadha’.
To approach near or touch the Idol of Varaha Deva is a third Aparadha.
Approaching Varah Deva for His ‘Darshan’, let alone His worship, after
seeing a female in the period of menses is noted as a fourth ‘Aparadha’.
Similarly, a person should perform ‘Achanam’ after seeing a dead body.
Worse still, if a person touches a dead body, one should take head-bath,
perform the ‘Samskaras’ and approach Divinity.
The Seventh Aparadha is to perform ablutions during worship time and worse
still not to purify the body and mind to resume the interrupted Puja with
‘Kshamaapana’Mantra.
Wearing a blue ‘Vastra’ or cloth to perform Vishnu Puja is the eighth
‘Aparadha’. Telling lies during Bhagavan Puja is a ninth offence. Touching
with impure hands the Puja Items meant for worship is a Tenth Aparadha.
The eleventh offence is that an angry person engaged in unreasonable tasks
and allowed to do so. The twelfth Aparadha is to use Vishnu’s name in the
Society to secure favours.
The thirteenth offence is to wear a red cloth while performing Vishnu Puja.
The fourteenth offence is that the puja is performed by wearing a black
vastra.
The fifteenth offence is that somebody touches the body of the devotee. A
devotee feeding an‘Agnani’/ Unethical person by himself is the sixteenth
blemish. Performing puja by wearing an uncouth cloth is a seventeenth
offence.
Worshipping the Deva after consuming fish and meat is considered as a grave
mistake. Eating chicken meat before Deva Puja is the nineteenth fault.
Touching ‘Dipa’ (light) and without ‘Achaman’ and touching Devas is the
twentieth mistake. Having visited ‘Smashanas’ (burial ground) and seeking
to touch Deva’s Idol without purifying the self by bath etc. is a known
blunder and constitutes a grave sin.
If Bhagavan Puja is taken up, after consuming ‘Pinyakam’ (Pitthi), it
would be construed as the twenty second offence.
Worship after consuming pig meat, wine and kusumb flower are the twenty
third, twenty fourth and twenty fifth offences. Whoever wears somebody
elses’ Vastra while performing the Puja of Deva is accused of a blunder
numbered twenty sixth in the series of ‘Aparadhas’.
Consuming the ‘Anna Prasada’ (food) meant for offering to Devas and Pitras
before the ‘Naivedya’ (‘Mantrapurvak- offering) constitutes an abject
blunder and is the twenty seventh in the series.
Those who wear ‘padarakshas’ (chappals) and perform Deva’s worship would
have committed a grave error which is counted as the twenty eighth
‘Aparadha’.
Worship after massage is considered as an affront to Varaha Deva bearing
number twenty ninth in the series of ‘Aparadhas’
.Performers of Deva Puja suffering from ‘Ajeerthi’ (Stomach upset) attract
the thirtieth offence. Those worshippers of Vishnu Deva offering ‘Dhoop’ or
incense would have made a mistake for the thirty first offence since that
offer has a negative effect without Gandham (Sandal Paste) and Pushpam
(flowers).
Finally the Door of Deva’s symbolic abode ought to be opened by the
resounding sounds of Bheris, conch shells and big bells; else this Aparadha
too would have been perpetrated as the thirty third one! ( Essence of
varaha purana by Kanchi kamakoti peetam)
3 There is another: " S*ampradaya* is a Sanskrit term, meaning
"tradition" or "religious system." It refers to a spiritual line of masters
and their disciples that creates religious stability and integrity. Sampradaya
can also be described as a school of religious views, beliefs, attitudes
and teachings passed on from one master to another. It is closely related
to the term *parampara *referring to the lineage of the spiritual masters
who carry and pass on the sampradaya. Have we not heard of, in a
marriage, a sambandhi lady bragging ``THIS IS CUSTOMARY IN OUR CLAN,
VILLAGE OR HOME"?. That is sampradayam. Under sampradayam we do a lot and
because elders were sitting in the temple so do the posterity. Many things
in our life , we do, are not covered by vedas including the bhagavathi
puja. It is a tantric concept where nambudiris defer the flower decorations
from places to places.
4 We are not supposed to cross the sea ; it is in vedam; are we
adhering to it?. KR IRS 4722
On Mon, 4 Jul 2022 at 12:19, 'gopala krishnan' via iyer123 <
[email protected]> wrote:
> Thank you sir
> Gopalakrishnan
>
> On Monday, 4 July, 2022 at 09:19:29 am IST, Narayanaswamy Iyer <
> [email protected]> wrote:
>
>
> *Subject:* *Re: [iyer123] -- sitting outside temples? IV*
>
> There was an uncorrected computer auto-corrector error in my post just now.
>
> The slokam:-
>
> "*punyashloko nalo punyashloko yudhishtira*
> *punyashlokaa cha vaidehee punyashloko janaarddanah"*
>
> should instead read:-
>
> *punyashloko nalo raajaa punyashloko yudhishtira*
> *punyashlokaa cha vaidehee punyashloko janaarddanah"*
>
> Sorry for the overlooked error.
>
> S Narayanaswamy Iyer
>
>
> On 4 Jul 2022, at 10:58 AM, Narayanaswamy Iyer <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
> It is no surprise that Sri Gopala Krishnan was not able to trace any Hindu
> scripture or source for the "ancient tradition" trumpeted by Sri
> Ranganathan for the slokam quoted by him.
>
> This is because the so-called shloka is an illegitimate mongrel
> concoction, neither Hindi nor Bengali but a cocktail having the
> characteristics of both tongues.
>
> It is certainly NOT Sanskrit, but bordering on blasphemy, put out by the
> irreverent screenwriter and by the producer of the Malayalam film "*Raavana
> Prabhu*", which name, glorifying the ten-headed demon abuctor of royal
> wives as a Mighty Lord equal to Indra, is intentionally misleading.
>
> If Sri Gopaalakrishnan is genuinely keen to recite something sacred and
> befitting at bedtime, please let me mention something found in
> "nithyaahnikam", compiled and edited by renowned Panditha Sree L
> Anantharaama Shaasthri, published by Messrs R S Vaadhyaar & Sons:-
>
> *yah shivo naamaroopaabhyaam yaha devee sarvamangalaa*
> *thayoh samsmaranaath pumsaam sarvatho jaya mangalam *
>
> *punyashloko nalo punyashloko yudhishtirah*
> *punyashlokaa cha vaidehee punyashloko janaarddanah*
>
> (phala-shruthi): (optional)
>
> iththam prabhaathe pavithram
> smaredvaa shrunuyaachcha thadvath
> duhsvapna-naashasthviha suprabhaatham
> bhavechcha nithyam bhagavath prasaadaath
>
> S Narayanaswamy Iyer
>
> On 3 Jul 2022, at 9:09 PM, gopala krishnan <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> Respected sir,
>
> I have no idea where the sloka appears. I recollect there was a posting in
> yahoo groups by a member -Mohanlal reciting the sloka. I found it is
> correct after seeing the film very late in TV.
>
> I have no idea where does the sloka appears
> Gopalakrishnan
>
> On Sunday, 3 July, 2022 at 03:17:17 pm IST, Narayanaswamy Iyer <
> [email protected]> wrote:
>
>
> Dear folks
>
> Earlier, Sri Gopala Krishnan wrote:-
>
> *"I recollect reciting this sloka by actor Mohanlal as father in the film
> RavanaPrabhu in Malayalam - reciting before going to bed."*
>
> Now re re-asserts:-
>
> *"The mantra quoted is recited at bed time by elders."*
>
> Fine. Sure.
>
> I have, after careful consideration and looking deeply into the matter,
> said:-
> One,
> *"His (Ranganathsn's) apparent Hindi/Bengali-inspired slokam occurs
> nowhere in our shaasthrams."*
>
> Will Sri Gopala Krishnan now please say exactly where in our scriptures or
> in our shaasthrams appears the alleged Malayalam film-origin slokam:-
>
> *Anayasen Maranam*
> *Bina denyen jeevanam*
> *Dehanth tav saanidhyam*
> *Dehi mey Parmeshwaram ?*
>
> Please supply the name of the vedam, smrithi, ithihaasam, puraanam,
> sthrothram, sthuthi, keerthanam or shaasthram with full reference to name
> of the composer/originator, to chapter and verse, so that the claim can be
> independently verified. Thanks.
>
> S Narayanaswamy Iyer
>
> On 3 Jul 2022, at 3:22 PM, 'gopala krishnan' via iyer123 <
> [email protected]> wrote:
>
> Yes sir, the mantra quoted is recited at bed time by elders
> Gopalakrishnan
>
> On Sunday, 3 July, 2022 at 12:48:15 pm IST, Rama <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>
> Yes. Sh Narayanswamy Sir is absolutely right... there is no tradition to
> sit and recite the slokams like " Anayasen Maranam....etc" .
> The original post seems to have been cut and paste .from Quora Q and A /
> Jay Jagannath group.
>
>
> On Sun, 3 Jul 2022 at 12:53, Narayanaswamy Iyer <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> Dear folks
>
> Sorry, but Sri A R Ranganathan is quite mistaken.
>
> There is no such tradition as sitting outside the temple after
> deva-darishanam. And his apparent Hindi/Bengali-inspired slokam occurs
> nowhere in our shaasthrams.
>
> All Hindus are offered, and accept, aasanam after entering Hindu homes.
> They are also offered a drink of water.
>
> After deva-darishanam, we sit briefly on the floor INSIDE the temple but
> outside the sanctum (normally facing east or west). The priest on duty
> will also offer us paadodakam (theertham derived from abhishegam of the
> deity) to sip.
>
> In any event, the slokam, even if exists, might well be as follows:-
>
> akaala Mrithyu haranam
> vinaad-anyena jeevitham
> jeevaanthey thava saayujyam
> dehi mei parameshvara/parameshvari
>
> The slokam muttered when sipping the theertham offered by the priest is as
> follows:-
>
> akaala Mrithyu haranam
> sarva vyaathi nivaaranam
> samastha paapa kshayakaram
> sree devaa/devee paadodakam shubham
>
> meaning --
>
> to avoid premature death
> to obtain freedom from all illness
> to be granted deliverance from the effects of all my wrongdoings
> l sip this sacred theertham with which the feet of the deity has been
> washed.
>
> S Narayanaswamy Iyer
>
> On 3 Jul 2022, at 12:31 PM, ARR <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> Question~ After darshan in the temple, sit down on the stairs/platform
> outside for a while. But why sit for a while?
>
> Answer ~ Tradition is that after visiting any temple, we come out and
> sit for a while on the foot of the temple. Do you know what is the reason
> for this tradition?
>
> I This ancient tradition is made for a specific purpose. In fact, quietly
> sitting on the foot of the temple, one should recite a shloka. People of
> today have forgotten this verse. Contemplate this shloka and share it with
> the next generation also.
> The shloka is like this~
>
> *अनायासेन मरणम् ,*
> *बिना देन्येन जीवनम्।*
> *देहान्त तव सानिध्यम् ,*
> *देहि मे परमेश्वरम्॥*
>
> *Anayasen Maranam*
> *Bina denyen jeevanam*
> *Dehanth tav saanidhyam,*
> *Dehi mey Parmeshwaram*
>
> The meaning:
> *Anayasen Maranam* means that we should die with ease, without any
> trouble and never fall sick and be confined to the bed, don't die by
> suffering but let our lives go as we go about daily life.
> *Bina denyen jeevanam* means there should be no life of dependency.
> Never have to be with anyone for support. Just as a person becomes
> dependent on others when he is paralyzed, do not be paralyzed or helpless.
> By the grace of Thakur ji, (Krishna ji) life can be lived without being
> dependent and begging.
> *Dehante tav sanidhyam* means that whenever death comes, let it be in
> God’s presence. As at the time of death of Bhishma Pitamah, Thakur (Krishna
> ji) himself stood in front of him. Let life be released while having this
> darshan.
> *Dehi mey Parmeshwaram* O God, grant us such a boon.
>
> Recite the above verse while praying to God. Do not ask for job, car,
> bungalow, boy, girl, husband, wife, house, money etc. (ie worldly things),
> this God himself gives you according to your eligibility. . That is why one
> must sit and pray this prayer after having darshan. This is a prayer, not a
> solicitation or begging. Prayer is not for worldly things like for home,
> business, job, son, daughter, worldly pleasures, wealth or other things,
> whatever is requested like this is begging.
>
> The word 'prarthana' means - 'pra' means 'special’, ‘best’,
> ‘highest’ and 'arthna' means request. Prayer thus means ‘special and
> highest request’.
>
> The darshan of God in the temple should always be done with open
> eyes. Some people stand there with their eyes closed. Why close our eyes,
> when we have come to see? Open your eyes and look at the form of God,
> nija-swarupa, of the divine feet, of the lotus face, of the shringar, take
> full enjoyment, fill your eyes with the beautiful nija-swarupa.
> When you then sit outside after darshan, then meditate on the form
> you have seen with your eyes closed. Meditate on your own soul within,
> closing your eyes and if God does not appear in meditation, then go back to
> the temple and have darshan again.
>
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> --
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