Sir, I am writing about the lesson drilled to the students. YM On Sat, Mar 9, 2024 at 10:08 PM Rajaram Krishnamurthy <[email protected]> wrote:
> Sir read again; nothing was any creation; substance as prakriti and > purusha in the sankhya yoga was the principle of the NASADIYA SUKTAM. iF > THERE WAS NOTHING HOW SOMETHING CAN OUT OF NOTHING? pL READ SLOWLY AGAIN > WITHOUT BIAS. thank U kr irs cARL SAGAN HAD ALSO WRITTEN ABOUT IT AND SINCE > YOU HAVE READ CARL i WROTE IT K Rajaram IRS 9324 > > On Sat, 9 Mar 2024 at 10:13, Markendeya Yeddanapudi < > [email protected]> wrote: > >> I have never been able to understand the lesson drilled as >> fundamental,that matter can neither be created nor destroyed.Then how has >> matter come into existence at all. >> Or as I have been writing all the while,when you analyze everything down >> to the nothing after the subatomic particle,you come across the abstract >> reality of nothing.So matter can neither be created nor destroyed because >> there is no matter at all in the first place but only the maya or illusion. >> YM >> >> On Sat, Mar 9, 2024 at 9:37 PM Rajaram Krishnamurthy < >> [email protected]> wrote: >> >>> 1st Law of Thermodynamics - Energy cannot be created or destroyed. >>> >>> KR: Matter can neither be created nor be destroyed; Vedic Bowdeekam >>> means Physics. >>> >>> Vedic Principle from verse 1.2 Brihadaranyaka Upanishad through the >>> readings of Krishna nanda: >>> >>> “naiveha kiṁcanāgra āsīt, mṛtyunaivedam āvṛtam āsīt, aśanāyayā, >>> aśanāyā hi mṛtyuḥ; tan mano'kuruta ātmanvī syām iti. so'rcann acarat, >>> tasyārcata. āpojāyanta, arcate vai me kam abhūd iti; tad evārkasya >>> arkatvam; kaṁ ha vā asmai bhavati, ya evam etad arkasya arkatvaṁ veda. “ >>> >>> The verse arose from Rig Veda NASADIYA SUKTAM. >>> >>> Originally, there was nothing. (The word NOTHING is to be >>> carefully followed; Vedas do not speak untruth). Death was enveloping >>> everything. That is all the meaning, literally, of this sentence.(KR: >>> NOTHING means it is not shunya; it is the glory of death enveloping all >>> That is all). In the beginning of things, what was there? Nothing was >>> there. There was a devouring, all-consuming death principle, as it were; >>> nothing >>> else can we conceive. In the Veda, also, there is this very same point >>> reflected in the Nāsadīya Sūkta, which proclaims that, in the beginning, >>> *there >>> was neither existence, nor non-existence*. What was there, originally? >>> Darkness enveloped, as it were, because there *was not the light of >>> sensory perception*. {KR absence of evidence is not the absence of the >>> existent of any evidence) What we call light is nothing but the *capacity >>> of the senses to perceive*. When the senses cannot perceive, we say >>> there is no light. [KR: It was there; but we lacked the sense to >>> perceive, so we said nothing} In pitch darkness, a kind of light exists; >>> but the eyes are incapable of catching the ray of that light. That >>> frequency is quite different from the one that is necessary for the eyes to >>> perceive. So, when there was no possibility of external consciousness, >>> when there was no sensory activity, when there was no distinction between >>> the subject and the object, when the seer was not distinguishable from the >>> seen, what was there? >>> >>> Nothing was there! *Naiveha kiṁcanāgra āsīt:* Originally, nothing >>> was there, because our idea of 'something' is an 'object'. There is no >>> object present, because the object enters the subject, and vice versa. >>> Creation is nothing but the projection of externality in Indivisible Being. >>> The creation of the universe, therefore, is not actually the >>> manufacture of a new substance. *In creation, a new thing is not >>> created, because nothing can come from nothing*. If a new thing is to >>> be created, it must have been produced out of nothing. How can 'nothing' >>> produce 'something'? This is illogical. The effect must have existed in >>> some causal state. This causal state is the substance of the universe. Now, >>> what is actually the distinctive mark of the universe that is created, as >>> different from the original causal condition? In what way does the effect >>> get differentiated from the cause? If everything that is in the effect is >>> in the cause, what is the distinctive feature, what is the distinguishing >>> mark, which separates the effect from the cause? If the effect is entirely >>> different from the cause, we cannot posit a cause at all, because the cause >>> is non-existent. If the cause is non-existent, the effect also would be >>> non-existent. So, the cause must have contained the effect in a primordial >>> state; and, therefore, nothing can be visualised in the effect which could >>> not have been in the cause. In a sense, therefore, what is in the >>> effect is what is in the cause. The effect is the cause. There is no >>> final non-distinction between the effect and the cause, inasmuch as in >>> substance they are the same. But yet, we make a distinction between the two. >>> >>> Now, when the effect gets psychologically isolated from the >>> cause, there is the seed sown for the further diversity of creation. The >>> two become four, four become eight, eight become sixteen, and multiplicity, >>> thus, proceeds from the original Single Atom of the cosmos. And, when this >>> diversity, which is creation, is conceived as possible and capable of being >>> hiddenly present in the cause, we have to assume, also, a peculiar potency >>> in the cause, which becomes the reason behind the manifestation of >>> diversity. This is called the Śakti in certain philosophies, the force, >>> energy, that is present in consciousness, a peculiar indistinguishable, >>> indescribable, eluding something, without the assumption of which creation >>> cannot be assumed. And, sometimes, people call it Māya, merely because they >>> cannot understand what it is. It is not a substance that exists. It is >>> rather an inability to grasp the meaning of it; that is all. >>> >>> So, this cosmological process, the development of the effect from >>> the cause, gradually, from the Universal Being, down to the lowest of >>> diverse elements – this it is that is described here in this Brāhmaṇa, >>> which says that originally nothing was, from where the element of >>> distinction between the subject and the object, characterised by a double >>> activity of grasping and separation, was evolved, and then arose the Cosmic >>> Mind, Hiraṇyagarbha.There will be nothing more in the Absolute than what we >>> see in the individual. This conclusion also will follow, if this assumption >>> is correct; and it is a very uncomfortable conclusion, because we are >>> not seeking in the Absolute merely what is in us. *A million people put >>> together cannot be regarded as qualitatively superior to what a single >>> individual is*. It is also held that the Absolute is transcendent in >>> the sense that it has no connection at all with the visible universe. >>> Often, it is also held that the Absolute is so much absorbed in the >>> universe that we cannot find it outside the universe. So, we have theories >>> and theories, and doctrines and doctrines. >>> >>> Then application of then philosophy of all the time existent, long after >>> became a also known as 1 law of thermodynamics. Then followed by water >>> fire etc as seen below in the next verse; and so science was found by us so >>> early but the less educated west taught us the science as if freshly found >>> by them ; so they cannot educate us. >>> >>> II āpo vā arkaḥ. tad yad apāṁ śara āsīt, tat samahanyata, sā pṛithivy >>> abhavat, tasyām aśrāmyat. tasya śrāntasya taptasya tejo raso >>> niravartatāgniḥ. >>> >>> Here, again, we have some description of the condensation of the dense >>> form of things, gradually taking place in the process of creation – the >>> subtle becomes gross. The cosmic waters hardened, as it were, became solid, >>> gradually, and the Earth element was formed. By the Earth element, what is >>> meant here is not merely this little globe of the earth on which we are >>> living, but the entire Earth Principle of the whole astronomical universe, >>> through which your eyes cannot pass. The whole element of Earth can be >>> regarded as the solidified form of this cosmic condition, the subtle nature >>> of things which is called here, Waters. It solidified itself. From Fire >>> comes Water; from Water comes Earth. This is the chronological order of >>> creation of the gross forms, ordinarily speaking. Sā pṛithivy abhavat: That >>> became the Earth, the grossened form of things. >>> >>> >>> >>> Here is the end of Cosmic creation. There is a famous passage in a text >>> of the Vedānta, known as Panchadaśi, written by Sage Vidyāraṇya, who >>> describes this in one Sloka: >>> >>> Iksānadi-praveśāntā ṣṛṣhtirīśena kalpitā. Jāgradādi-vimokṣhantah >>> samsāro jivīkalpitaḥ. “ >>> >>> This passage of the Upaniṣhad, and such other passages are given >>> their meaning in this verse of the Panchadaśi. From the Cosmic Will down to >>> Divine Immanence, it is Īshvara's creation. From walking till liberation, >>> it is the individual's creation. Īshvara's creation or God's creation ends >>> with the manifestation of the universal physical form, and God is not >>> responsible for what the individual is experiencing. The loves and sorrows, >>> the joys and pains, the births and deaths of the individual are not created >>> by God. They are created by some other factor which is not to be attributed >>> to God. The condensation of the cosmos, right from the causal condition >>> down to the physical, through the subtle, may be said to be the manifesting >>> activity of God. He becomes the 'All' and becomes also the consciousness of >>> the 'All'. But the reversal of attitude, the considering of the object as >>> the subject and the subject as the object, and the desire to grab objects >>> for the purpose of personal satisfaction, and the capacity to fulfil >>> certain desires and the incapacity to fulfil certain others, the getting >>> fatigued in personality on account of the inability to fulfil all desires, >>> the falling into sleep every day on account of the latent condition of >>> desires unfulfilled, etc. – these are all the phenomena of individuality, >>> not of Cosmic Being. Even the 'process' of Mokṣha, or liberation, is not >>> God's creation, because God has no Mokṣha. He is always in the state of >>> Mokṣha only. >>> >>> THUS 1ST LAW OF THERMODYNAMICS IF UNDERSTOOD CORRECTLY LEADS US >>> TO MOSHA. >>> >>> Xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx >>> >>> 2nd Law of Thermodynamics - For a spontaneous process, the entropy of >>> the universe increases. >>> >>> YMji was here. Entropy. Entropy is a scientific concept that is most >>> commonly associated with a state of disorder, randomness, or uncertainty. >>> The >>> disambiguation. When did that disorder take place? In PRALAYAM AND >>> AFTER; so what went into the fold which alone existed, was not visible, as >>> there was no sense perception to see in the darkness, even though there was >>> light; we felt it was dark. IT WAS THERE AND UNFOLDED IN SRISHTI OR NAME IT >>> AS SRISHTI, whereas, it was a manifestation. What was our mind’s perception >>> therefore may not be the truth. The manifestation cause had the effect of >>> heat; heat spread to cold places; Entropy was caused. Water running from >>> high to low is principle so also entropy. HENCE THERE WAS NO EXCEPTION TO >>> ANYTHING HAD ONE DONE PHYSICS WELL OR ANCIENT VEDAS GOOD AT LEAST. And >>> since matter cannot be erased out, all that high heat energy, reduced to >>> normal energy, must be there to recycle; and that recycling is happening >>> all around us, effecting, in chain reaction as heat, winter rain etc etc. >>> >>> xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx >>> >>> 3rd Law of Thermodynamics - A perfect crystal at *zero Kelvin* has zero >>> entropy. >>> >>> To reach zero kelvins, you would require an infinite amount of work. And >>> even if you could get there, quantum mechanics dictates that the atoms >>> and molecules would still have some irreducible motion. That is an >>> utopia where unless all atom motions were immovables only THAT ABSOLUTE >>> ZERO WILL BE REACHED; Now again go to Vedic 1st; it was dark; and there >>> was nothing; IS NOT TRUE, BECAUSE THERE SHALL ALWAYS BE SOME AATOM >>> MOVEMENTS; BUT OUR PERCEPTION OF THE MIND WITH THE INABILITY TO SEE THROUGH >>> THE DARKNESS, INITIATED 0 TO 100, 32 TO 212 AND THEN MINUS TEMP ETC WHICH >>> ARE ALL ABOVE kelvin zero or VEDIC CONCEPT SHOWED THE MOVEMENT OF BRAHMAM. >>> It was cold there but as momentum was there, manifestation when starting >>> again, heat energy can be generated leading to entropy. So, The >>> Brihadaranyaka Upanishad and the Rig veda Nasadiya suktam became A >>> WONDERFUL SCIENCE; AND IN SCIENCE EXCEPTIONS ARE NOT THERE; BUT ONLY IN OUR >>> MINDS AND PERCEPTION WITH THE CONDITIONED STATUS. So higher can impart >>> knowledge to lower and vice versa is impossible. K RAJARAM IRS 9324 >>> >>> On Fri, 8 Mar 2024 at 21:56, 'gopala krishnan' via iyer123 < >>> [email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> Respected sir, >>>> >>>> "( An Idiot whose education is less cannot educate a person who is more >>>> educated, unless he shouts and bluffs that his shouting is educating.)" >>>> >>>> I enjoyed the *exception* to the law of thermodynamics >>>> Gopalakrishnan >>>> >>>> On Saturday, 9 March, 2024 at 08:36:26 am IST, Markendeya Yeddanapudi < >>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> *Mar*Thermodynamics and Perception Symbiosis >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Thermodynamics is a study of heat and heat changes. Heat means the >>>> movement of molecules and atoms in a system. When the movement is more the >>>> heat will be more. When the movement is less the heat or temperature will >>>> be less. When there is no movement at all it is absolute zero where there >>>> is no movement of molecules or atoms at all, but only the electromagnetic >>>> waves zooming at the speed of light. >>>> >>>> One of the basic principles of Thermodynamics is that the heat from a >>>> body where the temperature is more moves into a body whose temperature is >>>> comparatively less. The heat from the body whose temperature is less cannot >>>> move into a body whose temperature is more. When the heat in the two bodies >>>> is same then there is the Thermal equilibrium that is there will be no heat >>>> exchange or the movement of molecules between the two bodies.( An Idiot >>>> whose education is less cannot educate a person who is more educated, >>>> unless he shouts and bluffs that his shouting is educating.) >>>> >>>> Now let us apply this principle to the Biosphere. Heat from an organism >>>> whose temperature is more will be moving into organisms whose temperature >>>> is less. It means that the excessive activity or heat from that organism >>>> moves into the organisms which are less active. The more active organisms >>>> or organisms with more life transfer their surplus to organisms which are >>>> less active and deficient of life. The healthy and active organisms >>>> automatically transfer health to the less active and less healthy >>>> organisms. The organisms are not in the deadly Darwinian war. They >>>> automatically help each other. Nature has constituted the symbiosis. >>>> >>>> Activity always is activity with perception in nature.Machines are not >>>> natural at all. They interfere in the automatic perception or thermal >>>> transfer. The whole activity among the organisms of the Biosphere is >>>> actually symbiotic perception and understanding. The Biosphere as one >>>> single organism is students helping students. Technology is disease for the >>>> Biosphere, ultimately the single organism. >>>> >>>> The basic law of Thermodynamics is the basic law of education to the >>>> Biosphere wherein all organisms enjoy and learn. Active molecules from the >>>> active organisms move into the less active organisms and thus distribute >>>> perception and understanding. In free nature where there is no human >>>> tampering, all organisms not only get health and strength, but also >>>> continuous education. >>>> >>>> The lifeline of education from nature, the continuous revelations laden >>>> education has been cut by our economic destruction. We are fooling not only >>>> ourselves but also every other organism. In fact we have diseasified the >>>> natural evolution. Evolution is actually education into higher levels by >>>> all organisms which mutate symbiotically. Natural evolution is the growth >>>> of the Biosphere with more education. >>>> >>>> It is growth with education and health where education and health are >>>> one and same. In free and healthy nature, nature makes you healthy >>>> continuously; in fact creating new mutations to keep you healthy. Your >>>> health is the result of the symbiosis among all organisms and also nature >>>> as Thermodynamics. >>>> >>>> The human has become the chronic disease of nature. The human has to >>>> take to self curing. The first step is to free economics from the >>>> mechanical paradigm and make ecology as the basic paradigm. >>>> >>>> Rene Descartes with his mechanical paradigm dealt the great death blow >>>> to nature. Darwin studied the Biosphere as the food chain, not as >>>> emotionally linked and symbiotic life forms. He actually ate every animal >>>> he researched. My God, the deadly ‘Ds’, Descartes, Darwin and Dawkins,have >>>> taken us all into the fanaticism of technology. The natural emotional >>>> symbiosis has been killed. >>>> >>>> And no University can get freedom from the frenzy for more and more >>>> technology or assaults on nature. >>>> >>>> YM >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups "iyer123" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>> an email to [email protected]. >>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/iyer123/39442903.1299820.1709956561591%40mail.yahoo.com >>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/iyer123/39442903.1299820.1709956561591%40mail.yahoo.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>> . >>>> >>> >> >> -- >> *Mar* >> > -- *Mar* -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Thatha_Patty" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. 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