I saw the old man writing as,"Who can accurately predict that the illegitimately-conceived child will certainly be a blemishless son, and not a paraplegic mentally defective daughter? " I HAD A DOUBT; BUT NOW I UNDERSTOOD ABOUT HIM/HER KR IRS 15724
On Sun, 14 Jul 2024 at 23:47, Narayanaswamy Iyer <[email protected]> wrote: > > Dear folks > > Attempting,as usual, to swallow an elephant whole, super-bluffologist > crocodile > K R ex-IRS trots out his latest grand baseless lie that:- > > "*Niyoga (Sanskrit: नियोग) **is an ancient Hindu tradition, in which a > woman (whose husband is either incapable of fatherhood or has died without > having a child) would request and appoint a person for helping her bear a > child.*" > > In fact, no such alleged "tradition" exists. > > In Hindu law, as well as any other law, no widow can "request and appoint" > any person to impregnate her to produce a child, or otherwise. > > Such children would be illegitimate, on all counts. > > The forbidden incestual practice can bne traced to Yaajnivalkya, the rebel > student who was kicked out of Veda-class for insubordinate behavior and > forced to disgorge whatever he had learnt:- > > "*The practice of niyoga does not seem to be referred in terms of > disapproval by Yājñavalkya. In fact, the texts of the Vyavahārādhyāya > suggest that the son born of such a practice occupies a good position. > Yājñavalkya declares that a son begotten by a sonless person on the soil of > another man through legal appointment is lawful heir and can offer funeral > cakes for both."* > > My comments:- > > Who can accurately predict that the illegitimately-conceived child will > certainly > be a blemishless son, and not a paraplegic mentally defective daughter? > > (Remember the famous dialogue between George Bernard Shaw and a woman > who wanted a child by him with his brains?) > > "*In the Mahaabhaaratham written by Vyaasa, illegitimate Durganthi’s > extra-marital illegitimate son black-skinned Kṛṣṇa Dvaipāyana Vyāsa who hd > taken a vow of celibacy was directed by hos own mother to perform/commit > Niyoga (rape/adultery) with the two widows Ambikaa and Ambaalikaa of dead > King Vicitravīrya. From whom were born totally blind Dhṛtarāṣṭra and > mottled-skin Pāndu, and from Ambaalikaa's maid Vidura."* > > "*W**hen the purpose of the appointment to (cohabit with) the widow bas > been attained in accordance with the law, those two shall behave towards > each other like a father and a daughter-in-law.*" > > My comments:- > > This incestuous practice accords with the Islamic practice whereby the > lusty > and lascivious aged Prophet Muhammad, seeing his young and voluptuous > daughter-in-law Zaynab bint Jahsh scantily clad in her tent at night, got > his son to divorce her, and married her himself. > > The old man man already had more than a dozen wives then, including > little Aishah whom he obtained from her mother when she was six years old > and he was fifty-three, and married her two years later. > > S Narayanaswamy Iyer > > On Mon, Jul 15, 2024 at 8:10 AM Rajaram Krishnamurthy < > [email protected]> wrote: > >> Niyog and Nari Part 1 >> >> Niyoga (Sanskrit: नियोग) is an ancient Hindu tradition, in which a woman >> (whose husband is either incapable of fatherhood or has died without having >> a child) would request and appoint a person for helping her bear a child. >> MEANS INJUNCTION >> >> n any case, to answer you question, the main place in Hindu scripture >> where the rules of Niyoga are described is in this chapter of the Manu >> Smriti: >> >> On failure of issue (by her husband) a woman who has been authorised, may >> obtain, (in the) proper (manner prescribed), the desired offspring by >> (cohabitation with) a brother-in-law or (with some other) Sapinda (of the >> husband). >> >> He (who is) appointed to (cohabit with) the widow shall (approach her) at >> night anointed with clarified butter and silent, (and) beget one son, by no >> means a second. >> >> Some (sages), versed in the law, considering the purpose of the >> appointment not to have been attained by those two (on the birth of the >> first), think that a second (son) may be lawfully procreated on (such) >> women. >> >> But when the purpose of the appointment to (cohabit with) the widow bas >> been attained in accordance with the law, those two shall behave towards >> each other like a father and a daughter-in-law. >> >> If those two (being thus) appointed deviate from the rule and act from >> carnal desire, they will both become outcasts, (as men) who defile the bed >> of a daughter-in-law or of a Guru. >> >> By twice-born men a widow must not be appointed to (cohabit with) any >> other (than her husband); for they who appoint (her) to another (man), will >> violate the eternal law. >> >> In the sacred texts which refer to marriage the appointment (of widows) >> is nowhere mentioned, nor is the re-marriage of widows prescribed in the >> rules concerning marriage. >> >> This practice which is reprehended by the learned of the twice-born >> castes as fit for cattle is said (to have occurred) even among men, while >> Vena ruled. >> >> That chief of royal sages who formerly possessed the whole world, caused >> a confusion of the castes (varna), his intellect being destroyed by lust. >> >> Since that (time) the virtuous censure that (man) who in his folly >> appoints a woman, whose husband died, to (bear) children (to another man). >> >> A practice prevalent in ancient times which permitted a childless widow >> to have intercourse with the brother or any near kinsman of her deceased >> husband to raise up issue to him, the son so born being called क्षेत्रज >> (kṣetraja); >> cf. Manusmṛti 9.59.:-देवराद्वा सपिण्डाद्वा स्त्रिया सम्यङ् नियुक्तया । >> प्रजे- प्सिताधिगन्तव्या सन्तानस्य परिक्षये (devarādvā sapiṇḍādvā striyā >> samyaṅ niyuktayā | praje- psitādhigantavyā santānasya parikṣaye) ||; see 6, >> 65 also. (Vyāsa begot pāṇḍu and dhṛtarāṣṭra on the widows of vicitravīrya >> in this way). >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> YAGNAVALKYA SMRITHI >> >> by Kalita Nabanita >> >> Hinduism Dharmashastra >> >> Chapter 3.6b - The practice of Niyoga >> >> Chapter 3 - The Social Aspect Depicted in the Vyavahārādhyāya >> >> Niyoga is an age-old social practice, which has become obsolete in modern >> age. This practice of ancient Hindu Law resembles the Levirate of the >> Jewish Law. >> >> The writers of the Dharmaśāstras are not unanimous about the fact, >> whether it is to be allowed or not. Manu censures niyoga vehemently and >> calls it a beastly practice (paśudharma). He declares that niyoga cannot >> take place in case of widow of a twice-born and is said to be in vogue only >> in the reign of king Veṇa >> >> nānyasminvidhavā nārī niyoktavyā dvijātibhiḥ anyasinhi niyuñjānā dharmaṃ >> hanyuḥ sanātanam// ayaṃ dvijairvidvadbhiḥ paśudharmo vigarhitaḥ// >> manuṣyāṇāmapi prokto vene rājyaṃ praśāsati// Manusmṛti, 9.64-68 >> >> However, immediately before prohibiting this practice, he lays down all >> the process to be observed in niyoga. >> >> Further, the Manusmṛti declares the process niyoga, with a comparison of >> the woman to field, husband to owner of field, the person, who is allowed >> to procreate child with another’s wife to owner of seed, and the child >> begotten in such union to crop. Thereby, it propounds the rule of niyoga >> that in presence of a special contract between the owner of the field and >> the owner of the seed, both are considered sharers of the crops, otherwise >> the owner of field receives the crops. >> >> He expressly permits niyoga in particular case of a bride, whose future >> husband dies before marriage. >> >> yasyā mriyeta kanyā yā vācā satye kṛte patiḥ// tāmanena vidhānena nijo >> vindeta devaraḥ// Ibid., 9.69 >> >> Moreover, Manu gives the rule of partition concerning the son born as a >> result of niyoga.Considering the above-mentioned account, Julius Jolly is >> of the opinion that Manu’s view regarding niyoga is contradictory. >> >> Robert Lingat holds that though Manu condemns niyoga and such other >> practices yet he might have confronted with the customs for prohibition to >> be efficacious. >> >> However, the reconciliation of this provision, may suggest its >> acceptance for the widows of the Śūdras, excluding three upper castes. >> >> The practice of niyoga does not seem to be referred in terms of >> disapproval by Yājñavalkya. In fact, the texts of the Vyavahārādhyāya >> suggest that the son born of such a practice occupies a good position. >> Yājñavalkya declares that a son begotten by a sonless person on the soil of >> another man through legal appointment is lawful heir and can offer funeral >> cakes for both. >> >> aputreṇa parakṣetre niyogotpāditaḥ sutaḥ/ ubhayorapyasau rikthī piṇḍadātā >> ca dharmataḥ// Yājñavalkyasmṛti, 2.127 >> >> Thus, the practice of niyoga is legally recognised by Yājñavalkya. It is >> described under the Ācārādhyāya in the following words-in case of a younger >> brother of the husband, in his absence a sapiṇḍa, in his absence a sagotra, >> with the permission of elders, having his body rubbed with clarified >> butter, cohabits with a sonless woman in seasons, till she conceives, then >> the son born by this procedure is known as Kṣetraja. He who does not act >> according to the procedure will be condemned. >> >> It is already shown in the table furnished in this chapter, displaying >> the places of different kinds of son that in the Yājñavalkyasmṛti, the >> Kṣetraja son is placed in third rank after the Aurasa and Putrikāputra. The >> legal affiliation to such son is also distinct when the author states that >> the sons born of legally wedded marriage or through the process of niyoga, >> being free from defect, are entitled to inherit the property of their >> father, who cannot inherit due to some defects. >> >> aurasāḥ kṣetrajāstveṣāṃ nirdoṣā bhāgahāriṇaḥ/ Ibid., 2.141 >> >> Thus, it appears that during the time of the Yājñavalkyasmṛti, niyoga is >> favoured in the society, as the text gives legal sanction to a son born of >> such practice, which may have occurred with changing times and prevailing >> customs. >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> Niyoga (inviting a widow to remarry) >> >> Chapter 5 - Cultural history in the Matsya-Purāṇa >> >> When it comes to society and marriage, it remains incomplete without >> talking about a particular issue, that is Niyoga . The practice of inviting >> a widow to remarry or have children was called Niyoga . However, this >> method was not considered sacred by everyone. For example, even though sage >> Gautama recognized it, but according to Āpastamba, it was completely >> forbidden. Almost the entire part of the Mahābhārata is filled by this >> Niyoga method. >> >> There were several rules for this Niyoga. For example– >> >> (1) The person whose wife will be Niyoga , whether he is dead or alive, >> must be childless, >> >> (2) The family guru will decide who will be appointed for the Niyoga , >> >> (3) The person to be appointed should be the husband’s brother or his >> clan, caste and pravara should be equal, >> >> (4) This method should be done out of a sense of duty, not if it is a >> desired object, >> >> (5) The person to be appointed must be anointed with ghee (Butter) or >> oil, not by words, kisses or playing tricks, >> >> (6) This relationship will last only until one or two children are born, >> >> (7) The widow must be young and healthy enough, >> >> (8) After birth, the widow and the appointed person will consider each >> other as father-in-law and daughter-in-law. >> >> In the Mahābhārata , Satyavati hire her stepson Bhīṣma to niyoga after >> the death of her own son Vicitravīrya but Bhīṣma refuses. Then Satyavati’s >> pre-marital son Kṛṣṇa Dvaipāyana Vedavyāsa was invited for Niyoga with the >> two widows of Vicitravīrya. From whom were born Dhṛtarāṣṭra and Pāndu and >> from a maid Vidura. There are also several examples of Niyoga in the >> MatsyaPurāṇa . >> >> (I) verse 46 and 47 of the fiftieth chapter of Matsya Purāṇa contain the >> story of the birth of Dhṛtarāṣṭra, Pāndu and Vidura from the wive of >> Vicitravīrya. >> >> (II) Mahārāja Bāli’s wife Sudeṣṇāand sage Dīrghatamā’s Niyoga resulted as >> Bali’s five Kṣetraja sons named–Anga, Vanga, Suhya, Pundra and Kaliṅga.[1] >> >> (III) King Pāndu also had five Kṣetraja sons. From Dharmarāja, Kunti gave >> birth Yudhiṣṭhira, from Vāyu, Bhīma, and from Indra, Arjuna. From >> Aśvinīkumar’s, Mādrī gave birth to two sons Nakula and Sahadeva. The five >> were called Devadatta as they were born from Deva (Gods).[2] >> >> The study of social structure is very important in the study of society >> and culture. Social structure refers to the system with which the order of >> the whole part of society is related so that the elements of social life >> are connected together. These relationships are built one after the other. >> They can also be called a sequence of various complications. So the social >> structure is nothing more than a complete coordinator of social relations >> (Radcliffe brown A.R., Structure and function in primitive society, Ch. X >> pp 188ff). The study of social structure enables one to know how the >> various units of society who have direct or indirect contact with each >> other interact with each other in social life. >> >> Matsya Purāṇa–Chapter 48/24, 25 >> >> Matsya Purāṇa–Chapter 50/48, 49, 50 >> >> End of part 1 KR IRS 14724 15724 >> >> xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx >> >> -- >> On Facebook, please join https://www.facebook.com/groups/keralaiyerstrust >> >> We are now on Telegram Mobile App also, please join >> >> Pattars/Kerala Iyers Discussions: https://t.me/PattarsGroup >> >> Kerala Iyers Trust Decisions only posts : https://t.me/KeralaIyersTrust >> >> Kerala Iyers Trust Group for Discussions: >> https://t.me/KeralaIyersTrustGroup >> --- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "KeralaIyers" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected]. >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/keralaiyers/CAL5XZoqAGpGRzDgaOwZTiiexWaDdPPNijC2D9yY%2BJQvMxXvSCQ%40mail.gmail.com >> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/keralaiyers/CAL5XZoqAGpGRzDgaOwZTiiexWaDdPPNijC2D9yY%2BJQvMxXvSCQ%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >> . >> > -- > On Facebook, please join https://www.facebook.com/groups/keralaiyerstrust > > We are now on Telegram Mobile App also, please join > > Pattars/Kerala Iyers Discussions: https://t.me/PattarsGroup > > Kerala Iyers Trust Decisions only posts : https://t.me/KeralaIyersTrust > > Kerala Iyers Trust Group for Discussions: > https://t.me/KeralaIyersTrustGroup > --- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "KeralaIyers" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/keralaiyers/CAL4idhOCSuNtuO%2B92DGwRCT1otAYPD5qJRt41Ph2MFnOgM2Eng%40mail.gmail.com > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/keralaiyers/CAL4idhOCSuNtuO%2B92DGwRCT1otAYPD5qJRt41Ph2MFnOgM2Eng%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> > . > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Thatha_Patty" group. 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