Thank you Mr Bala. Gopla uses him as his shield; so Gopala must keep travelling with him; lest he would have to admit his error prone Quora only knows the script for him, that too picks and drops as amazon product, unaware of what is written. There used to be a saying My husband is also going to the office. Gopala gets a lot of stinking emails but he has developed a complex of superiority with blank white sheets. When our grandson errs all will forgive and ignore; but not when we do at 60+. Gopala does not. And I never abuse anyone if he does not include Narayana; but where the content is not done perfectly or we have so many here, but because of net availability, dropped and filled, I feel I have to point out , what is here, a better asset. No one is authorised to abuse any one; and if Palestine stops it, Israel never adds fuel to fire. Or if they publish their madness cert well we will bypass them. But one cannot assume causes over others that too a handful, and also charge sheet and frame all on the oppositions. Anything written in the forum is public material where other contents of relevance will appear; if Gopala feels that was a wrong content, give evidential content . All of us can learn better. Or else close the workshop. KR IRS 16724
On Mon, 15 Jul 2024 at 22:14, gopala krishnan <[email protected]> wrote: > Respected sir, > > Mr Narayanaswamy responds to the mistakes in the postings of Mr Rajaram. > In reacting Mr Rajaram uses abusing words, non standard words and never > accepts or counter MrNarayanaswamy. > > Abusing is not only from Mr Narayanaswamy, *but also from Mr Rajaram*. > originator of abuses is Mr Rajaram, not Mr Narayanaswamy. > > Respected sir, > > If you go through the reactions of Mr Rajaram to *my cultural QA postings*, > you can observe the teasing, personal comments and non standard usage > about me. I am very specific not use any sort of bad words, indecent > language, abusing etc. > > Last few months I do not respond to Mr Rajaram, because it is endless. > Finally I have to stop. > > Since you addressed only Mr Narayanaswamy, I am responding with facts. > > Gopalakrishnan > > On Tuesday, 16 July, 2024 at 07:42:27 am IST, Major Bala Iyer < > [email protected]> wrote: > > > DEAR sHRI MR NARAYANASWAMY iYER > > You are much older than many.. When every one is closer to the end , such > abuse of a member does not show you well in the minds of younger members > of the group .Please change your ways. You can bring in your comments but > not abuses.. You have not changed even after 15/20 years. > Regards > > On Tue, Jul 16, 2024 at 6:58 AM Narayanaswamy Iyer <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > Dear folks > > Good to know that K R ex-IRS has unerringly identified himself publicly as > "the illegitimately-conceived son within blemishes who is a mentally > defective paraplegic". > > "Out of the mouth of babes", as the Bible says, "comes wholesome truth". > > Congrats, mentally defective illegitimately-conceived son KR ex-IRS 15724 > ! > > S Narayanaswamy Iyer > > On Mon, Jul 15, 2024 at 9:47 PM Rajaram Krishnamurthy < > [email protected]> wrote: > > I saw the old man writing as,"Who can accurately predict that the > illegitimately-conceived child will certainly > be a blemishless son, and not a paraplegic mentally defective daughter? > " I HAD A DOUBT; BUT NOW I UNDERSTOOD ABOUT HIM/HER > KR IRS 15724 > > On Sun, 14 Jul 2024 at 23:47, Narayanaswamy Iyer <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > Dear folks > > Attempting,as usual, to swallow an elephant whole, super-bluffologist > crocodile > K R ex-IRS trots out his latest grand baseless lie that:- > > "*Niyoga (Sanskrit: नियोग) **is an ancient Hindu tradition, in which a > woman (whose husband is either incapable of fatherhood or has died without > having a child) would request and appoint a person for helping her bear a > child.*" > > In fact, no such alleged "tradition" exists. > > In Hindu law, as well as any other law, no widow can "request and appoint" > any person to impregnate her to produce a child, or otherwise. > > Such children would be illegitimate, on all counts. > > The forbidden incestual practice can bne traced to Yaajnivalkya, the rebel > student who was kicked out of Veda-class for insubordinate behavior and > forced to disgorge whatever he had learnt:- > > "*The practice of niyoga does not seem to be referred in terms of > disapproval by Yājñavalkya. In fact, the texts of the Vyavahārādhyāya > suggest that the son born of such a practice occupies a good position. > Yājñavalkya declares that a son begotten by a sonless person on the soil of > another man through legal appointment is lawful heir and can offer funeral > cakes for both."* > > My comments:- > > Who can accurately predict that the illegitimately-conceived child will > certainly > be a blemishless son, and not a paraplegic mentally defective daughter? > > (Remember the famous dialogue between George Bernard Shaw and a woman > who wanted a child by him with his brains?) > > "*In the Mahaabhaaratham written by Vyaasa, illegitimate Durganthi’s > extra-marital illegitimate son black-skinned Kṛṣṇa Dvaipāyana Vyāsa who hd > taken a vow of celibacy was directed by hos own mother to perform/commit > Niyoga (rape/adultery) with the two widows Ambikaa and Ambaalikaa of dead > King Vicitravīrya. From whom were born totally blind Dhṛtarāṣṭra and > mottled-skin Pāndu, and from Ambaalikaa's maid Vidura."* > > "*W**hen the purpose of the appointment to (cohabit with) the widow bas > been attained in accordance with the law, those two shall behave towards > each other like a father and a daughter-in-law.*" > > My comments:- > > This incestuous practice accords with the Islamic practice whereby the > lusty > and lascivious aged Prophet Muhammad, seeing his young and voluptuous > daughter-in-law Zaynab bint Jahsh scantily clad in her tent at night, got > his son to divorce her, and married her himself. > > The old man man already had more than a dozen wives then, including > little Aishah whom he obtained from her mother when she was six years old > and he was fifty-three, and married her two years later. > > S Narayanaswamy Iyer > > On Mon, Jul 15, 2024 at 8:10 AM Rajaram Krishnamurthy < > [email protected]> wrote: > > Niyog and Nari Part 1 > > Niyoga (Sanskrit: नियोग) is an ancient Hindu tradition, in which a woman > (whose husband is either incapable of fatherhood or has died without having > a child) would request and appoint a person for helping her bear a child. > MEANS INJUNCTION > > n any case, to answer you question, the main place in Hindu scripture > where the rules of Niyoga are described is in this chapter of the Manu > Smriti: > > On failure of issue (by her husband) a woman who has been authorised, may > obtain, (in the) proper (manner prescribed), the desired offspring by > (cohabitation with) a brother-in-law or (with some other) Sapinda (of the > husband). > > He (who is) appointed to (cohabit with) the widow shall (approach her) at > night anointed with clarified butter and silent, (and) beget one son, by no > means a second. > > Some (sages), versed in the law, considering the purpose of the > appointment not to have been attained by those two (on the birth of the > first), think that a second (son) may be lawfully procreated on (such) > women. > > But when the purpose of the appointment to (cohabit with) the widow bas > been attained in accordance with the law, those two shall behave towards > each other like a father and a daughter-in-law. > > If those two (being thus) appointed deviate from the rule and act from > carnal desire, they will both become outcasts, (as men) who defile the bed > of a daughter-in-law or of a Guru. > > By twice-born men a widow must not be appointed to (cohabit with) any > other (than her husband); for they who appoint (her) to another (man), will > violate the eternal law. > > In the sacred texts which refer to marriage the appointment (of widows) is > nowhere mentioned, nor is the re-marriage of widows prescribed in the rules > concerning marriage. > > This practice which is reprehended by the learned of the twice-born castes > as fit for cattle is said (to have occurred) even among men, while Vena > ruled. > > That chief of royal sages who formerly possessed the whole world, caused a > confusion of the castes (varna), his intellect being destroyed by lust. > > Since that (time) the virtuous censure that (man) who in his folly > appoints a woman, whose husband died, to (bear) children (to another man). > > A practice prevalent in ancient times which permitted a childless widow to > have intercourse with the brother or any near kinsman of her deceased > husband to raise up issue to him, the son so born being called क्षेत्रज > (kṣetraja); > cf. Manusmṛti 9.59.:-देवराद्वा सपिण्डाद्वा स्त्रिया सम्यङ् नियुक्तया । > प्रजे- प्सिताधिगन्तव्या सन्तानस्य परिक्षये (devarādvā sapiṇḍādvā striyā > samyaṅ niyuktayā | praje- psitādhigantavyā santānasya parikṣaye) ||; see 6, > 65 also. (Vyāsa begot pāṇḍu and dhṛtarāṣṭra on the widows of vicitravīrya > in this way). > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > YAGNAVALKYA SMRITHI > > by Kalita Nabanita > > Hinduism Dharmashastra > > Chapter 3.6b - The practice of Niyoga > > Chapter 3 - The Social Aspect Depicted in the Vyavahārādhyāya > > Niyoga is an age-old social practice, which has become obsolete in modern > age. This practice of ancient Hindu Law resembles the Levirate of the > Jewish Law. > > The writers of the Dharmaśāstras are not unanimous about the fact, whether > it is to be allowed or not. Manu censures niyoga vehemently and calls it a > beastly practice (paśudharma). He declares that niyoga cannot take place in > case of widow of a twice-born and is said to be in vogue only in the reign > of king Veṇa > > nānyasminvidhavā nārī niyoktavyā dvijātibhiḥ anyasinhi niyuñjānā dharmaṃ > hanyuḥ sanātanam// ayaṃ dvijairvidvadbhiḥ paśudharmo vigarhitaḥ// > manuṣyāṇāmapi prokto vene rājyaṃ praśāsati// Manusmṛti, 9.64-68 > > However, immediately before prohibiting this practice, he lays down all > the process to be observed in niyoga. > > Further, the Manusmṛti declares the process niyoga, with a comparison of > the woman to field, husband to owner of field, the person, who is allowed > to procreate child with another’s wife to owner of seed, and the child > begotten in such union to crop. Thereby, it propounds the rule of niyoga > that in presence of a special contract between the owner of the field and > the owner of the seed, both are considered sharers of the crops, otherwise > the owner of field receives the crops. > > He expressly permits niyoga in particular case of a bride, whose future > husband dies before marriage. > > yasyā mriyeta kanyā yā vācā satye kṛte patiḥ// tāmanena vidhānena nijo > vindeta devaraḥ// Ibid., 9.69 > > Moreover, Manu gives the rule of partition concerning the son born as a > result of niyoga.Considering the above-mentioned account, Julius Jolly is > of the opinion that Manu’s view regarding niyoga is contradictory. > > Robert Lingat holds that though Manu condemns niyoga and such other > practices yet he might have confronted with the customs for prohibition to > be efficacious. > > However, the reconciliation of this provision, may suggest its acceptance > for the widows of the Śūdras, excluding three upper castes. > > The practice of niyoga does not seem to be referred in terms of > disapproval by Yājñavalkya. In fact, the texts of the Vyavahārādhyāya > suggest that the son born of such a practice occupies a good position. > Yājñavalkya declares that a son begotten by a sonless person on the soil of > another man through legal appointment is lawful heir and can offer funeral > cakes for both. > > aputreṇa parakṣetre niyogotpāditaḥ sutaḥ/ ubhayorapyasau rikthī piṇḍadātā > ca dharmataḥ// Yājñavalkyasmṛti, 2.127 > > Thus, the practice of niyoga is legally recognised by Yājñavalkya. It is > described under the Ācārādhyāya in the following words-in case of a younger > brother of the husband, in his absence a sapiṇḍa, in his absence a sagotra, > with the permission of elders, having his body rubbed with clarified > butter, cohabits with a sonless woman in seasons, till she conceives, then > the son born by this procedure is known as Kṣetraja. He who does not act > according to the procedure will be condemned. > > It is already shown in the table furnished in this chapter, displaying > the places of different kinds of son that in the Yājñavalkyasmṛti, the > Kṣetraja son is placed in third rank after the Aurasa and Putrikāputra. The > legal affiliation to such son is also distinct when the author states that > the sons born of legally wedded marriage or through the process of niyoga, > being free from defect, are entitled to inherit the property of their > father, who cannot inherit due to some defects. > > aurasāḥ kṣetrajāstveṣāṃ nirdoṣā bhāgahāriṇaḥ/ Ibid., 2.141 > > Thus, it appears that during the time of the Yājñavalkyasmṛti, niyoga is > favoured in the society, as the text gives legal sanction to a son born of > such practice, which may have occurred with changing times and prevailing > customs. > > ------------------------------------------------------------- > > Niyoga (inviting a widow to remarry) > > Chapter 5 - Cultural history in the Matsya-Purāṇa > > When it comes to society and marriage, it remains incomplete without > talking about a particular issue, that is Niyoga . The practice of inviting > a widow to remarry or have children was called Niyoga . However, this > method was not considered sacred by everyone. For example, even though sage > Gautama recognized it, but according to Āpastamba, it was completely > forbidden. Almost the entire part of the Mahābhārata is filled by this > Niyoga method. > > There were several rules for this Niyoga. For example– > > (1) The person whose wife will be Niyoga , whether he is dead or alive, > must be childless, > > (2) The family guru will decide who will be appointed for the Niyoga , > > (3) The person to be appointed should be the husband’s brother or his > clan, caste and pravara should be equal, > > (4) This method should be done out of a sense of duty, not if it is a > desired object, > > (5) The person to be appointed must be anointed with ghee (Butter) or oil, > not by words, kisses or playing tricks, > > (6) This relationship will last only until one or two children are born, > > (7) The widow must be young and healthy enough, > > (8) After birth, the widow and the appointed person will consider each > other as father-in-law and daughter-in-law. > > In the Mahābhārata , Satyavati hire her stepson Bhīṣma to niyoga after the > death of her own son Vicitravīrya but Bhīṣma refuses. Then Satyavati’s > pre-marital son Kṛṣṇa Dvaipāyana Vedavyāsa was invited for Niyoga with the > two widows of Vicitravīrya. From whom were born Dhṛtarāṣṭra and Pāndu and > from a maid Vidura. There are also several examples of Niyoga in the > MatsyaPurāṇa . > > (I) verse 46 and 47 of the fiftieth chapter of Matsya Purāṇa contain the > story of the birth of Dhṛtarāṣṭra, Pāndu and Vidura from the wive of > Vicitravīrya. > > (II) Mahārāja Bāli’s wife Sudeṣṇāand sage Dīrghatamā’s Niyoga resulted as > Bali’s five Kṣetraja sons named–Anga, Vanga, Suhya, Pundra and Kaliṅga.[1] > > (III) King Pāndu also had five Kṣetraja sons. From Dharmarāja, Kunti gave > birth Yudhiṣṭhira, from Vāyu, Bhīma, and from Indra, Arjuna. From > Aśvinīkumar’s, Mādrī gave birth to two sons Nakula and Sahadeva. The five > were called Devadatta as they were born from Deva (Gods).[2] > > The study of social structure is very important in the study of society > and culture. Social structure refers to the system with which the order of > the whole part of society is related so that the elements of social life > are connected together. These relationships are built one after the other. > They can also be called a sequence of various complications. So the social > structure is nothing more than a complete coordinator of social relations > (Radcliffe brown A.R., Structure and function in primitive society, Ch. X > pp 188ff). The study of social structure enables one to know how the > various units of society who have direct or indirect contact with each > other interact with each other in social life. > > Matsya Purāṇa–Chapter 48/24, 25 > > Matsya Purāṇa–Chapter 50/48, 49, 50 > > End of part 1 KR IRS 14724 15724 > > xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > > -- > On Facebook, please join https://www.facebook.com/groups/keralaiyerstrust > > We are now on Telegram Mobile App also, please join > > Pattars/Kerala Iyers Discussions: https://t.me/PattarsGroup > > Kerala Iyers Trust Decisions only posts : https://t.me/KeralaIyersTrust > > Kerala Iyers Trust Group for Discussions: > https://t.me/KeralaIyersTrustGroup > --- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "KeralaIyers" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/keralaiyers/CAL5XZoqAGpGRzDgaOwZTiiexWaDdPPNijC2D9yY%2BJQvMxXvSCQ%40mail.gmail.com > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/keralaiyers/CAL5XZoqAGpGRzDgaOwZTiiexWaDdPPNijC2D9yY%2BJQvMxXvSCQ%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> > . > > -- > On Facebook, please join https://www.facebook.com/groups/keralaiyerstrust > > We are now on Telegram Mobile App also, please join > > Pattars/Kerala Iyers Discussions: https://t.me/PattarsGroup > > Kerala Iyers Trust Decisions only posts : https://t.me/KeralaIyersTrust > > Kerala Iyers Trust Group for Discussions: > https://t.me/KeralaIyersTrustGroup > --- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "KeralaIyers" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/keralaiyers/CAL4idhOCSuNtuO%2B92DGwRCT1otAYPD5qJRt41Ph2MFnOgM2Eng%40mail.gmail.com > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/keralaiyers/CAL4idhOCSuNtuO%2B92DGwRCT1otAYPD5qJRt41Ph2MFnOgM2Eng%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> > . > > -- > On Facebook, please join https://www.facebook.com/groups/keralaiyerstrust > > We are now on Telegram Mobile App also, please join > > Pattars/Kerala Iyers Discussions: https://t.me/PattarsGroup > > Kerala Iyers Trust Decisions only posts : https://t.me/KeralaIyersTrust > > Kerala Iyers Trust Group for Discussions: > https://t.me/KeralaIyersTrustGroup > --- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "KeralaIyers" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/keralaiyers/CAL5XZor1YLL8u%3DRH_z8J_8zm_WDWSVjHBouhXSQyOXPpD1X8Jg%40mail.gmail.com > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/keralaiyers/CAL5XZor1YLL8u%3DRH_z8J_8zm_WDWSVjHBouhXSQyOXPpD1X8Jg%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> > . > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "iyer123" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/iyer123/CAL4idhMi-xYZA_UQzqDy7rbvsgdzJFg7Cx3cjnksvmZ0F9jLqQ%40mail.gmail.com > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/iyer123/CAL4idhMi-xYZA_UQzqDy7rbvsgdzJFg7Cx3cjnksvmZ0F9jLqQ%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> > . > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "iyer123" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/iyer123/CACoGT%2BeKmS0sV%2B3A74E7yNYSZpwdGrsCjFyQDbbBZYF1FArwNA%40mail.gmail.com > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/iyer123/CACoGT%2BeKmS0sV%2B3A74E7yNYSZpwdGrsCjFyQDbbBZYF1FArwNA%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> > . > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Thatha_Patty" group. 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