Martin, thank you for explaining that clearly, it seems I may have been over 
complicating things.

It would though, be nice to understand how the -station-names whoodoo works if 
only for future reference. I have found some stuff on the Wiki but nothing that 
makes any sense to me.

Our data set has only been one level so far and with hindsight we should have 
done things very differently but at the start of the learning process you can 
not always see that. Anyway this week we have two levels of data working with 
the latest stuff so a step forward I think.

I keep looking at the older stuff and thinking about redoing it to organise it 
better but then think well it all works, so lets not bother and go for a beer.


From: Therion [] On Behalf Of Martin Sluka via 
Sent: 02 March 2018 11:10
To: List for Therion users <>
Cc: Martin Sluka <>
Subject: Re: [Therion] Error When Adding A new Cave to Master Index


first off all, Therion is able to work only with unique informations which are 
in a survey/endsurvey wrapper.

It means, if you define map outside of the survey/endsurvey wrapper in .th file 
there must be another higher level survey/endsurvey wrapper which will cover 
all information Therion needs and which you define as source in .thconfig.

My way is to use for first level surveys (log of one survey trip) definitions 
of map(s) inside survey/endsurvey wrapper as I include particular .th2 file 
there too. So in this survey/endsurvey wrapper are all informations including 
scrap drawings. In higher level I simply "input" .th file, which means the 
survey/endsurvey wrapper of higher level has access to all necessary data 
without -station-names woodoo.

When I want to define a higher level map I must use scrap_name@survey_name, not 
only scrap_name. Etc.

Martin S.

On Mar 02, 2018, at 11:01 AM, Nick Bairstow via Therion 
<<>> wrote:
OK as is normally the case with these things I spotted the error within five 
minutes of asking for help, but it has raised a another question.
My problem was quite simply I had no survey/end survey wrapper. I have been 
using this index file for over two years and never noticed however it has 
worked perfectly and produced what I needed.

I now ask why did the compile OK with the other 18 surveys listed in 

The only difference between the first 18 surveys and the last non-working one 
was that in each scrap of the 18 previous surveys I used the option 
-station-names “” “@surveyname”. I was shown this when I started learning 
Therion but never really new why. When using this option to make any 
compile I have to make sure the map/endmap is outside the survey/endsurvey 

With the my latest survey file I did not use the scrap option and just went 
with the “normal way” with everything in within the survey/endsurvey 
and then the index .th failed due to having no survey/endsurvey wrapper.
Clearly I do not yet fully understand the process even though I can make things 
work, so lots more reading I think. Does anyone know of a good explanation 
somewhere, most thing I read I find a little confusing.

Also if someone would like to explain the
-station-names “” “@surveyname” bit I would be very grateful.

I suspect I’m not the only one to have struggled with this.

Thanks for the previous answers guys.


From: Therion [] On Behalf Of Bruce Mutton via 
Sent: 01 March 2018 19:23
To: 'List for Therion users' <<>>
Cc: Bruce Mutton <<>>
Subject: Re: [Therion] Error When Adding A new Cave to Master Index

I’m guessing you have created a map that contains the survey only for your new 
cave, and a map which contains scraps or maps for your other caves.
I do this intentionally while I am drawing up a new  piece of passage, then 
remove the survey map once I am finished.

From: Therion <<>> On 
Behalf Of Nick Bairstow via Therion
Sent: Friday, 2 March 2018 7:38 AM
To: List for Therion users <<>>
Cc: Nick Bairstow <<>>
Subject: [Therion] Error When Adding A new Cave to Master Index

I have just added a small cave to my main index .th. Everything compiles but 
the pdf shows the new cave as shots and splays not as the normal walls etc you 
would expect in a map. All other caves display correctly as intended.
Has anyone point out what I am doing wrong.


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