HC I started work on providing a filter to the tag drop downs and was asking myself how I may filter them to reduce them in number.
I then referred back to your original thread and note a large contributor to your problem is the journal tiddlers, - Is that because you use a given days journal title as a tag to organise information by day, So have a lot of date tags? You are I assume aware that rather than click the drop down right away, if you start typing the list will be filtered, however on first click into the tag name entry, it shows all tags right away. What if this click or responce to each letter typed was disabled and you had to use the dropdown by click or tabbing to the "tag dropdown", before the list appeared, then the list will only be those tiddlers that match the search string? This could popup again after 3 to 4 characters are typed because by then the possible tag list is reduced. If however your list is not reduced much after 3-4 characters then I believe there is another approach, please give me an example "string" where you get too many tag suggestions after the all tag list is displayed if possible. Regards Tony On Tuesday, February 11, 2020 at 6:33:47 PM UTC+11, HC Haase wrote: > > > > søndag den 9. februar 2020 kl. 03.11.14 UTC+1 skrev TonyM: >> >> HC, >> >> Thanks for starting this discussion - it really helps both learning and >> development to run such threads. >> > > Glad to hear it. Thanks for your detailed response. > >> >> I would find a limit on the tags would inevitably confuse me and possibly >> result in my creating new tags of a similar name. >> > > As I imaging it, I don't think so. As soon as you begin to type, the tag > list would reflect that (like it do now) and you would find the tag. And as > it is now, when the list of tags run of the page of a pc screen, I don't > think it gives more clarity than a limited list. (but of course I can't > speak for you). > > Personally I just quickly type a number of characters to quickly limit the >> choices, perhaps a small delay rather than a character limit would allow >> you to do the same rather than limit it to three characters, or a setting >> like for search that sets the minimum number and the delay time. >> > > I guess a delay could also work but I dont see the advantage over > character limit. > > >> I have a different perspective" To me tags are a quick to use ad hoc >> method for selecting/categorising tiddlers. This extends to tags that group >> tags like "status" could tag new, inprogress and done, but they need to be >> removed as well as added. This is one case where a single value in a field >> works better. >> > > I agree that tags are quick ad hoc categorising, but I think tags is also > "more" (wiki structure). I also agree that fields work better in these > category/value scenarios. > >> >> Personally I try and avoid tags and use fields instead because I try not >> to "pollute" the tag space. I may even use tags initially then migrate all >> tiddlers so tagged to all tiddlers with a given field/value. >> > > Here is the problem again (not with you but with the tech). You and others > avoid using the tags because the tags fail at their job. Should we not fix > the tag mechanism instead of adapting our behaviour? > > >> Not withstanding my alternate approach what would I do if I had too many >> tags. first I would find a way to divide them into subsets, the simplest >> being tags with a given tag, or tiddler vs system tiddler. It is only once >> you find a way to group your tags can you build something to view a subset >> of tags. I would tend to keep the default drop down or tag search and build >> another restricted in some way by a filter. For example every status tag >> could have the field status and have a method to select a tag only from the >> status tags etc... The selection of status tag may only appear on tiddlers >> with an field object-type with the value task, object-type[task]. >> >> However for a really intense user of tags marios alttags/gentags plugin >> allows you define multiple tag fields, and the available tags in each >> alternative tag group are only search for within the existing tags used in >> that tag field. >> >> In the longer term I would like to see us developing more list fields >> like tags and provide a method to migrate tags to these alternatives. Tags >> are a wonderful free method of "tagging" but more often that not we >> actually use tags as keyword list, a status of which a tiddler can only >> have one at a time, or primary categories where only one category can be >> assigned and/or multiple category fields. Another is a keyword field that >> one adds search terms you want found but that do not necessarily appear in >> the tiddler. >> >> I think we have opposite views here. A separatist vs a unionist :) > you want to make subsets of tags and @P Marios gentag makes subset of > tagfields. You say that "more often that not we actually use tags as > keyword list,... or primary categories " But why only one at a time? In my > view this is exactly the power of tags. I want my wiki to grow buttn-up. I > dont want to make a distinction betwene keyword and category before the > difference present itself. Therefore I want the tags to simultaniusly be > keywords, categories and search terms. I need to go with the flow (maybe I > should start a new threat to go deeper in this). > > I think the problem with using special fields or an extra special > tag-field is that you don't have one place to look for something. Fields > are great for custom things, but tags are better. I think tags has some big > advantages "out of the box": > > > - automatic toc > - drop down picker (when it works ;)) > - colouring > - consistency across different wikis > > > Let us take advantages of that instead of avoiding tags. Make tags great > again. > > In the world of data/knowledge and Information management there are a set >> of well known concepts such as tags and categories (subjects/Domains/Genra >> are others), for which I would like to see a mechanisium to define and use >> these as part of the Standard distribution. To me these would mitigate the >> need to deal with large numbers of tags. >> > > Do you care to talk some more about the world of information management > and the utility of well known concepts? this could be interesting > >> >> Not withstanding my different approach I see no reason not to enable a >> filtered tag selector to help in your case. Let me know if you would like >> one developed. I think a tag pill style that allowed to to tag from its >> dropdown according to a filter would be nice. >> >> Yes, thank you I would. I'm imaging a filter that limit the length of the > tag drop-down list and a setting for the user to set that limit. I don't > know it if would be too much, but it could be useful to have a fourth/back > arrow to cycle to the next e.g. 10 hits, or if not, just a button to show > all. But maybe this would be redundant because you get more precise results > when you type. > > Regards >> Tony >> >> >> -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TiddlyWiki" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/5c96e858-3baf-4747-831b-4d3a01ee7b00%40googlegroups.com.
