I just ran across this conversation and I'm *thrilled* with what you guys are doing! I highly agree with "user configurable setting". I love having loads of options as a user! I have several TiddlyWikis but one for my personal journal that currently has 4965 tiddlers with external image links and many _canonical_uri: of external audio. Using two story rivers has opened up a world of exploration to me!
Mark On Thursday, April 16, 2020 at 10:55:43 AM UTC-4, Saq Imtiaz wrote: > > David: that's good feedback. Note that I have been trying not to project > my personal preferences for note-taking on to these discussions, but rather > take my lead from you and others who are prospective users of this set up. > Note taking habits and workflows can be different between individuals and I > find that what works for me is actually quite different from what appeals > to most who look to TiddlyWiki for solutions. > > My personal experience of working with two stories is that it can indeed > get confusing to have a lot of tiddlers open in both stories, especially if > you have same tiddler open in both stories. This is however mitigated to > quite some extent by means of the Open tab in the sidebar, that not only > gives you an overview of the open tiddlers, but you can click any of them > to scroll it into view (note this is currently bugging out for the second > story in the demo but works in my original setup, will debug later). Most > of the time I would have one tiddler open in the main story and several in > the second as reference, but have quite often had and needed 2-3 tiddlers > in the first story as well. > > The good news is that this is easy to tweak and could even be made a user > configurable setting. If you notice, in the TiddlyBlink integration demo, > the first story view only allows only tiddler to be visibly open whereas > the second uses the classic storyview and can have multiple tiddlers open. > Allowing more tiddlers in the first story is a simple as changing its > storyview to classic. > I suspect there is a need for more user feedback to determine what > configuration is the most intuitive for most people, and should therefore > serve as the default. > > Regarding hot keys: I prefer keyboard shortcuts wherever possible myself > and understand the appeal. For moving tiddlers between stories the problem > is that TiddlyWiki doesn't really have a concept of a tiddler in focus, and > this isn't trivial to implement reliably due to the refresh mechanism. I've > seen chatter on github about work being planned on this area for the > TiddlyWiki core so it would probably be best to wait for that. > > Regarding search, keyboard shortcuts are very useful here. The core has > already added shortcuts for the search fields (ctrl+shift+a and > ctrl+shift+f) and there are changes forthcoming in the TW release that > allows you to choose and open a search result via the keyboard alone. > My setup for the last couple of years has been to have shortcuts that can > be used to trigger two different modals: > - one with advanced search. Here I can click any link to open in the main > story or shift+click to open in the second story. > - the other with a note taking UI for jotting down quick thoughts. > This is a key part of my personal notetaking workflow. I can't currently > share a demo as I am in the process of updating from TiddlyWiki 5.1.17 and > replacing my custom code for global keyboard shortcuts with the newer core > support for it. But if there is interest I can post it once I've finished > the migration and updates. > > Regards, > Saq > > On Thursday, April 16, 2020 at 3:27:02 PM UTC+2, David Gifford wrote: >> >> Hi Saq >> >> A user on Twitter wrote this: >> >> My hunch is that the user might be better off with a single tiddler in >> the main column, a scrolling second column, hotkeys for pulling up the >> search bar, hotkeys for moving focus from main tiddler to the column, >> hotkeys for moving a focused tiddler into the main column. >> >> I don't know about the hotkeys, but his point was that if one has a lot >> of tiddlers open in both columns, one would have to scroll both columns to >> find any given tiddler, so it might be better to have one fixed column with >> a limit of one tiddler, and a main scrolling column for all the others. I >> am undecided. What do you think about his feedback? >> >> On Wednesday, April 15, 2020 at 2:11:08 PM UTC-5, David Gifford wrote: >>> >>> Thanks Saq >>> >>> I think I would like to leave the parallel tab as it is on its homepage >>> https://giffmex.org/gifts/tiddlyblink.html rather than tweak it at this >>> point. It is almost superfluous and could be removed. But I may replace it >>> with a Favorites plugin tab. >>> >>> Blessings >>> >>> >>> On Wed, Apr 15, 2020 at 2:04 PM Saq Imtiaz <saq....@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> Dave: the parallel tab breaking may have been an inadverdent result of >>>> me hurriedly hacking both the story in a tab, as well as the parallel two >>>> story layouts into TiddlyBlink. >>>> I don't see any reason why the original way you had that working should >>>> break, so that should hopefully get automatically resolved when we do this >>>> a bit more systematically. >>>> Note that it does seem to work when I paste a title like TiddlyBlink >>>> into it on the parallel tab on your demo at >>>> https://giffmex.org/experiments/doubleblink.html >>>> >>>> If you want a third story in the parallel tab.... that could work too >>>> but would require a few tweaks. >>>> One potential use for that tab could be as a sort of a workspace >>>> drawer, where you drag and drop tiddler titles that know you will need for >>>> what you are working on, but do not want open at the moment. I have a >>>> similar setup in one of my wikis. >>>> >>>> I will work through what we have discussed as time allows, and keep you >>>> updated. No worries, we are on the same page. I view you as a product >>>> owner >>>> representing everyone that does and might use the end product you are >>>> working on :) >>>> >>>> Regards, >>>> Saq >>>> >>>> On Wednesday, April 15, 2020 at 7:57:55 PM UTC+2, David Gifford wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Hi Saq, thanks for the detailed reply. See my comments below in* bold* >>>>> . >>>>> >>>>> On Wed, Apr 15, 2020 at 12:27 PM Saq Imtiaz <saq....@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Hi David, >>>>>> >>>>>> I'm glad the quick integration was helpful. I suggest we move beyond >>>>>> that but take a little time to discuss exactly which functionality and >>>>>> behaviour we want. After which I can help identify the necessary bits >>>>>> and >>>>>> even tweak things if necessary. >>>>>> >>>>>> Agreed on the dropzones, I never use them. >>>>>> So the functionality you want is: >>>>>> - shift click to open in the second story >>>>>> >>>>> *Yes* >>>>> >>>>>> - shift click edit button to open in second story in edit template? >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> *?? No, I don't think so.* >>>>> >>>>>> - divert buttons >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> *Yes. * >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> *Before I forget - did you do something to my parallel tab? It wasn't >>>>> working. Was that a necessary change so that the stories would work?* >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> A couple of other things to consider: >>>>>> - the second story is currently set to classic storyview as there >>>>>> were issues with the one you are using for TiddlyBlink. This allows for >>>>>> more than one tiddler to be open in the second story. Is that OK or do >>>>>> you >>>>>> want to limit that to one? Perhaps allow more tiddlers but have a >>>>>> different >>>>>> view template that makes it easier to fold them? >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> *I think classic storyview for both columns would be best.* >>>>> >>>>> *I was even thinking about adding the ability to easily fold tiddlers. >>>>> See how this is done in Roam in the attached gif* >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> - I personally like the idea of being able to hide the second story >>>>>> even if there is a tiddler(s) open it, and be able to restore it later >>>>>> and >>>>>> pick up where you were. Is this behaviour something you want? I >>>>>> sometimes >>>>>> use the second story a bit like a "to do" list and like being able to >>>>>> come >>>>>> back to it when needed. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> *I do too, but it should be viewed by default in the online file so >>>>> people are aware of it.* >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Also if you give me a little time, I can go through the components we >>>>>> would be adding to TiddlyBlink to see if they can be optimized or >>>>>> cleaned >>>>>> up. As I mentioned I wrote this when first getting to know TW5 and I am >>>>>> sure there are tricks I missed and core improvements since that we can >>>>>> leverage. I am happy to help just please keep in mind that my schedule >>>>>> is a >>>>>> bit crazy at the moment, as I am volunteering at the local hospital. So >>>>>> I >>>>>> go from having a fair bit of time to some very busy days. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> *I am not in a rush, and appreciate your willingness to help me on >>>>> this. You and so many people here have been so generous with their time >>>>> and >>>>> skills. But please don't think of it as being for me, but for TiddlyWiki, >>>>> to have a wickedly good TW 'app' to get people on board* >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Keep in mind that everything about the appearance of the story, the >>>>>> settings at which it becomes visible etc is all done via CSS which we >>>>>> can >>>>>> customize as much as necessary to fit your workflow and vision. >>>>>> Perhaps we can look up some screen resolution stats to see what a >>>>>> good cut off point for showing two stories should be. But I also feel >>>>>> like >>>>>> with a horizontal resolution of less than 1270, there just isn't enough >>>>>> screen space for two stories. >>>>>> You could maybe push it down to 1024 but then show the sidebar >>>>>> overlapping the second story? The idea being to show it when needed and >>>>>> otherwise keep it hidden. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> *I am not sure. I think my laptop is roughly standard size: 15" >>>>> diagonal screen, 1920 x 1080 resolution, and the tiddlers are just wide >>>>> enough to work on even when the sidebar is showing.* >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Note that the divert buttons are already in that prototype I posted, >>>>>> they just aren't visible until two stories are active, which from what I >>>>>> remember is purely css based. Making that visible at all times would >>>>>> therefore not be difficult. >>>>>> $:/_sq/Stories/divertTiddlerMacro >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> *Oh, and sure enough, they are visible on >>>>> https://giffmex.org/experiments/doubleblink.html >>>>> <https://giffmex.org/experiments/doubleblink.html>, how did I miss that?* >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> I haven't looked into packaging things as a plugin for TW5 but if >>>>>> necessary we can go that route. Alternatively creating a button people >>>>>> can >>>>>> drag is easy. We either tag all the tiddlers or just use a filter as >>>>>> below: >>>>>> <$button class="tc-tag-label tc-btn-invisible" >>>>>> dragFilter="[prefix[$:/_sq/Stories]] >>>>>> $:/core/ui/Buttons/more-tiddler-actions >>>>>> $:/config/_sq/Stories/story2 $:/config/Tiddlers/TitleLinks >>>>>> $:/themes/tiddlywiki/vanilla/options/sidebarlayout">Drag me to >>>>>> install</$button> >>>>>> >>>>>> Button widgets support a dragFilter attribute so we can make the >>>>>> payload for drag and drop whatever we need it to be. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> *I actually have TiddlyBlink set up so that the user can drag the 'tb' >>>>> tag pill to his or her own file. I would prefer to just tag one >>>>> sq/stories >>>>> plugin tiddler so that that is added to the list.* >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> *Thanks again, Saq! Blessings to you. Hope whatever personal issues >>>>> you were facing are behind you, for your sake.* >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Regards, >>>>>> Saq >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Wednesday, April 15, 2020 at 5:55:54 PM UTC+2, David Gifford wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I agree with Diego, the TiddlyBlink with two columns, for those >>>>>>> using laptops, is the way to go. Coincidentally, it means you could >>>>>>> have a >>>>>>> list of links in the parallel tab, and two story columns, so THREE >>>>>>> tiddlers >>>>>>> open side by side. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Also, I think you said it, and I just want to concur, the drop zones >>>>>>> are superfluous and unnecessary if you have shift-click and divert >>>>>>> buttons. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I would like to update TiddlyBlink with this, or else make a special >>>>>>> version of TiddlyBlink for this. But I want users to be able to drag it >>>>>>> in >>>>>>> with a tag pill into their own files. Would I need to tag each of those >>>>>>> tiddlers individually? Or could this be a plugin? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Also, what would be the optimal settings so that most laptop users >>>>>>> would see two columns upon arriving? I had to change it to 1270 to see >>>>>>> them >>>>>>> because your files appear as one column for me. But would 1270 be >>>>>>> sufficient for most users? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Finally, what tiddlers would be needed for the divert buttons? I >>>>>>> like that functionality. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> This is really great, Saq. You sure came back with a grand gesture >>>>>>> of generosity and genius! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Wednesday, April 15, 2020 at 9:57:39 AM UTC-5, Saq Imtiaz wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> For those that are interested, here a few variations to play with >>>>>>>> that I hope you might find useful. These are all quick integrations >>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>> will hopefully serve as a starting point for anyone that finds this >>>>>>>> useful. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> - Alternate behaviour where the second story is automatically shown >>>>>>>> when there is at least one tiddler open it. Shift click a tiddler link: >>>>>>>> https://saqimtiaz.github.io/sq-tw/two-story-alt.html >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The above behaviour applies to the next two as well: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> - TiddlyBlink with a substory in the parallel tab: >>>>>>>> https://saqimtiaz.github.io/sq-tw/tiddlyblink-with-tab-story.html >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> - TiddlyBlink with two parallel stories (not in a tab): >>>>>>>> https://saqimtiaz.github.io/sq-tw/tiddlyblink-two-story-saq.html >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Original version of my two story implementation: >>>>>>>> http://sq-twostories.tiddlyspot.com/ >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Regards, >>>>>>>> Saq >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in >>>>>> the Google Groups "TiddlyWiki" group. >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this topic, visit >>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/topic/tiddlywiki/d60QYKycUCY/unsubscribe. >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to >>>>>> tiddl...@googlegroups.com. >>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/12b390ee-4d1b-470e-976c-bb0fe4e827a0%40googlegroups.com >>>>>> >>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/12b390ee-4d1b-470e-976c-bb0fe4e827a0%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>>> . >>>>>> >>>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the >>>> Google Groups "TiddlyWiki" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this topic, visit >>>> https://groups.google.com/d/topic/tiddlywiki/d60QYKycUCY/unsubscribe. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to >>>> tiddl...@googlegroups.com. >>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/89c499b2-1d1f-49c0-8105-af613c2e2a13%40googlegroups.com >>>> >>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/89c499b2-1d1f-49c0-8105-af613c2e2a13%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>> . >>>> >>> -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TiddlyWiki" group. 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