Hi Riz, On Sunday, May 3, 2020 at 10:38:43 PM UTC+4:30, Riz wrote: > > These are valid points Mohammad. > > As you know, I was away from being active in the community in between. > Life happens. However before I left, there was a move to shift tiddlywiki > github Repo to an organizational Repo with roles assigned to volunteers - > so that burden on Jeremy will be less. I don't know why it has not bore > fruit after this much time. @PMario - care to chime in? >
This is what I think! an organizational repo with of course many volunteers! I hope Jeremy shed some lights here to see what are the barrier it has not implemented yet! > > Also about newbies - here is what I have in mind about an ideal solution. > As you said - it should be a wizard. A wizard that is a plugin, so that > newbies could uninstall/delete the intro wizard once they are comfortable. > It should sit at the top, like the menu-bar currently in tiddlywiki.com > and give instructions. It should also highlight the button the newbie has > to press - changing the color of that particular button svg for the step or > something. Ideally there should not be a next button at all in the wizard. > Instead, wizard should listen to events at the concerned button of current > step and show the next instruction automatically. > > Agree! When I look at some rival products like DokuWiki, I see on installation page one can select at least among plugins, languages, portability, ... we need such wizard getting started > Yes, we need to start collecting and documenting. A good resource is your > Wikis itself. If you would like to contribute to core documentation, I can > help whatever ways I can. Also - in my opinion, you should try making pull > requests for parts of your Shiraz plugin to the core. I know there is a > radical redesign undertaking happening. But it never hurts to make small > changes in the meantime. > The reason I did not is, my limited knowledge of Tiddlywiki core and JS. But yes I can help on downstream :-) --Mohammad > > On Sunday, 3 May 2020 21:35:55 UTC+5:30, Mohammad wrote: >> >> Riz, >> I don't want to go in details! but one of barrier for newbies using TW >> is the documentation! Sometimes I say, to learn something you need a >> tutorial, instruction, teacher, ... to take you from step A to step B! >> Tiddlywiki is nonlinear so, in its wild nature it may not be a good >> choice for documentation! Except if you force it to behave linear! Like by >> adding a theme, a plugin, a script, ... etc >> For example in Sistan, when you start from >> http://sistan.tiddlyspot.com/#Button%20to%20Create%20New%20Task (the >> first page) you have a next button to find the next page and gradually go >> to the last page.. >> >> Another point is: the documentation is a mixed of TW 5 up to TW 5.1.22 >> For doing something you find several solutions and you do not know which >> method is better or even which operator, filter, widget command you should >> use! Sometime I think I should prepare a tutorial, wiki, ... called *TW >> a carefully crafted subset of the most recent version of Tiddlywiki.* >> >> Example: I see a lot of code in TW say <$list >> filter="[<some-var>prefix[yes]]" for a long time I did not understand >> that and then realized it means the variable value is yes. I come from a >> numerical method/programming world! so this was very confusing for me! >> later on match operator was born, and I talked to Jeremy to change it to >> <$list >> filter="[<some-var>match[yes]]" >> >> >> I myself appreciate all the hard work by Jeremy and I know he is very >> busy, yet put alot of time here free of charge, so I never expect him to go >> through these and correct documentation. I think Mario well described the >> situation, he said Tiddlywiki has an organic growth and so, you see all >> these things. >> >> I may propose we need a movement to start correcting and revising >> document and put the latest subset on tiddlywiki.com for public and then >> all old out of use or obsolete/deprecated mark and have a link / note to >> the new subset! >> >> >> --Mohammad >> >> >> >> On Sunday, May 3, 2020 at 7:39:56 PM UTC+4:30, Riz wrote: >>> >>> Thank you Mohammad. If you have any objections to the points raised or >>> other suggestions, please let me know. >>> >>> Sincerely, >>> Riz >>> >>> On Sun, 3 May 2020, 20:38 Mohammad, <mohamma...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> I absolutely support your idea Riz! >>>> >>>> On Saturday, May 2, 2020 at 2:17:57 AM UTC+4:30, Riz wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Sorry about the other post. It seems google groups is messing with me >>>>> today. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> So, I made some changes to documentation changes and pushed them >>>>> already. Some others, I felt like I would need to consult the community. >>>>> >>>>> Few things are very much in need of updates. >>>>> >>>>> Major Points >>>>> >>>>> 1. Despite tiddlyfox disappearing entirely from Firefox addon store, >>>>> it is still documented as one of the main saving mechanisms for >>>>> Tiddlywiki. >>>>> >>>>> https://tiddlywiki.com/#GettingStarted%20-%20Firefox >>>>> https://tiddlywiki.com/#GettingStarted%20-%20Android >>>>> >>>>> Other saving methods are definitely documented. However the space and >>>>> prominence given to TiddlyFox gives a false idea that it is somehow still >>>>> relevant. >>>>> >>>>> Please note: I have edited and pushed changes regarding Termux and >>>>> replaced AndTidwiki with Tiddloid. I felt like TiddlyFox warrants more >>>>> discussion and approval owing to its community nature. >>>>> >>>>> 2. What is the actual point of "Getting started" tiddlers? All but the >>>>> main getting started tiddlers are way outdated and provides false >>>>> information. I already pointed out the "Getting started Firefox" and >>>>> "Getting started Android" issues. Now look at "Getting started - Chrome" >>>>> >>>>> https://tiddlywiki.com/#GettingStarted%20-%20Chrome >>>>> >>>>> The first sentence says only HTML fallback mechanism works in Chrome. >>>>> This is false info and other saver mechanisms are documented in TW5 >>>>> itself. >>>>> >>>>> The only "Getting started" Tiddler that makes a reasonable sense is >>>>> "Getting started Node JS". Delete the rest so that there is one source of >>>>> truth to maintain. >>>>> >>>>> 3. There should be a feature comparison table between the multitude of >>>>> saving options available. Throwing tons of options at a user will work >>>>> better if the user knows what is the difference between them. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> 4. Most of the examples of filters in TW5 uses "sort". sortan is more >>>>> advanced and natural with respect to non-technical users. However it is >>>>> hard to find because user have to specifically search for it. So much so >>>>> that even experienced TW5 users forgot about its existence. I suggest we >>>>> change all filter examples from sort to sortan. >>>>> >>>>> Need for reorganisation >>>>> >>>>> 5. I know "Getting started" is one of the default tiddlers. However in >>>>> the TOC organization, it appears in "Working with Tiddlywiki". For a >>>>> newbie >>>>> who accidentally closed the Getting started tiddler, one of the first >>>>> places he will look in will be Table of contents. I say we retag the >>>>> "Getting started" with HelloThere and push it to the top. >>>>> >>>>> 6. Is there a definite criteria for matters to be tagged. This is my >>>>> understanding from the main site >>>>> >>>>> - HelloThere introduces and explains the philosophical aspects of >>>>> tiddlywiki >>>>> - "Working with Tiddlywiki" explains basic tasks. >>>>> - "Learning" explains more advanced tasks >>>>> - Customisation should ideally involve things you can do regarding >>>>> styles, things you can achieve with CSS, color palettes. >>>>> >>>>> Points below is based on this understanding. >>>>> >>>>> 7. "Working with Tiddlywiki" should come before "Learning"? Because it >>>>> is much more basic. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> 8. "Philosophy of tiddlers" should be under "HelloThere" with all >>>>> other explanations - not under learning >>>>> >>>>> 9. https://tiddlywiki.com/#TaskManagementExampleDraggableTemplate >>>>> does not require "Learning" tag >>>>> >>>>> 10. Suggested title changes >>>>> "How to hide the author's and other fields with CSS" to "How to hide >>>>> author/date/other parts of viewtemplate with CSS" >>>>> "Simple ways to write protect tiddlers" to "How to write protect >>>>> tiddlers" >>>>> >>>>> 11. Export tiddlers, Adopt a title policy - these two should be under >>>>> "Working with Tiddlywiki" because these are basic things and one of the >>>>> first things people might look for. >>>>> >>>>> 12. "How to Customize TiddlyDesktop" should be under Customisation >>>>> >>>>> 13. https://tiddlywiki.com/#Scalability is a claim. There should be >>>>> links to specific instances of such Wikis IMO. >>>>> >>>>> 14. There is a need for rearranging Learning and Working with >>>>> Tiddlywiki. Things like "Task Management example" and is variations >>>>> should >>>>> be together and they should also link to community resources that >>>>> implemented complex task management systems. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the >>>> Google Groups "TiddlyWiki" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this topic, visit >>>> https://groups.google.com/d/topic/tiddlywiki/5y6dRfZxOgg/unsubscribe. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to >>>> tiddl...@googlegroups.com. >>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/1349661e-3855-47ad-8822-0cffa4f9e0aa%40googlegroups.com >>>> >>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/1349661e-3855-47ad-8822-0cffa4f9e0aa%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>> . >>>> >>> -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TiddlyWiki" group. 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