Tones, Please accept this reply in the spirit it is intended, as constructive input into the issue of learning TW wikitext and not as an attack on anyone, TW or this group.
A simple example. The tiddlywiki wiki entry on Variables in Wikitext has the example, <$set name=animal value=zebra> <<animal>> </$set> Your cheatsheet, which I know you passed to me before it has been reviewed, has a similar example <$set name='var' value='Foo'> <<taggingByVar>> </$set> Note one difference, the use of quotes around the variable name and value attributes. So which is it, are quotes required or not? Do quotes matter? I would assume quotes do matter and if so why does the official documentation leave them out. I also assume the macro call should read <<taggingby var>> and this is just a mistype. But this hows that even such a simple statement's documentation is inconsistent. Now, if quotes don't matter I assume it is because no values have spaces? But this is an exception rule and as we all know one exception breeds other exceptions and soon we have so many exceptions that the only real exception is the initial idea. In all other programming languages that I know of, strings are quote delimited. A simple lesson learned once and applied all over the place. Your cheatsheet on the <VAR> element states "Does *only* work as a *filter variable*, inside or outside a macro:" As something is either inside or outside of a macro, this should always work as a filter variable then cause it can't be in any other state so the statement doesn't make sense. Another example, concatenation of strings. Search for concatenate in TW documentation and you get the tiddler, Concatenating text and variables using macro substitution, which categorically states that the only way to do this is to use a macro. So I used a macro. Could not get the macro to function as expected inside a $list loop. You and Eric explained that it can not be used this was inside a $list loop but where does it state that in the documentation? Many of the examples in the TW documentation use what appears to be a macrocall of some sort to perform the example. So you cannot see the actual statements used, you can only see the result of the macrocall. Not very helpful really is it. Why not just use simple statements that anyone can follow after all we are after a real example to see how things are done. As for referencing values inside tiddlers, it seems there are many possibilities involving various configurations of quotes/brackets/braces/underscores. Why is there not a single method of referencing content? Eric, in an earlier email, described it as the calling context's problem to work out what is required. Yet in all other programming languages that I have used over the 40+ years of my programming, referencing a variable is always the same in a particular language, it is not dependent on the calling content, nor is it dependent on how it is being used, it is defined in the grammar of the language. Now maybe this is an attribute of web applications. Maybe it is the result of organic development as Atro states. Whatever it is, it is bloody difficult to grasp and so becomes very frustrating. My development progress at this stage is a single wikitext statement at a time involving much input from the helpful people on this group.Each time, I learn a bit more but applying that learning quickly fails with the next statement. Your email to Atro and I asks, "perhaps you can't see the logic yet" Too right! I don't see any logic yet. I have studied your cheatsheet and the references it makes to others' work as well as various emails from Eric and the Tiddlywiki documentation and I still don't see any logic in it. Perusing the emails on this list indicates I am not the only one and there seems to be some recognition that this is a real problem for TW uptake. Someone earlier suggested I contribute to the documentation but I don't understand enough to be able to do that. Any contribution I could make would, right now, be wrong, misleading and totally misunderstanding of the design philosophy behind TW. I am continuing to use TW for my web app but at some stage will have to make the decision as to whether it is worth my time and effort to continue. I feel TW has a great potential but believe the development side needs to be addressed. I am nearly 60% way through another TW app that simple involves my editing content and this is working well and is getting welcome acceptance. http://cultconv.com/English/Conversations/MacQueen_Mary/TiddlyWiki/index.html. FYI, for this application, I have created a Filemaker Pro database into which I type the various content elements and then generate the required Wikitext which I then cut and past into the appropriate tiddler. This has proved very efficient over typing directly into TW. Hope this helps. Happy to discuss further and do what I can to address these concerns/issues. bobj <http://cultconv.com/English/Conversations/MacQueen_Mary/TiddlyWiki/index.html> On Wednesday, 30 September 2020 at 09:30:55 UTC+10 TW Tones wrote: > Bob/Atro > > Bob I don't understand your statement "*no consistency in the parsing of > wikitext*", perhaps you can't see the logic yet? but do share the > inconsistencies? > > Mario, I and others are working on a new wiki text customise solution > which adds so much power, it will blow you mind, but it still needs to sit > on top of the current Wiki text, so we should raise issues to fix egregious > examples of inconsistencies. > > Though keep in mind a widget is "subprogram" of sorts. The internal > widgets are highly consistent (a few exceptions), however third party ones > vary as for any similar case. > > Regards > Tones > > > On Monday, 28 September 2020 15:25:18 UTC+10, Bob Jansen wrote: >> >> Atro, >> >> you are right, the problems are in writing wikitext. The real problem, as >> far as I can understand it, is that the documentation is incomplete and >> messy AND that there seems to be no consistency in the parsing of wikitext. >> That may be because different people write different widgets, macros, etc, >> but this does not help the naive user like me. >> >> I am a programmer, have been programming for over 40 years. So it is not >> an issue with how to program or its concepts. Like other programming >> languages, there is an expectation of consistency, but may be this is not >> an attribute of web applications. >> >> Still, we keep trying and getting better...........slowely :-) >> >> bobj >> >> On Monday, 28 September 2020 at 14:13:47 UTC+10 Atronoush wrote: >> >>> Bob, >>> Most of your problems come from how to write Tiddlywiki scripts (e.g. >>> wikitext). One the best resource in this regards is >>> https://kookma.github.io/TW-Scripts/ from Mohammad >>> >>> For example what you asked in this post has been addressed in TW-Scripts >>> Look at: Syntax Summary >>> <https://kookma.github.io/TW-Scripts/#Shorthand%20Syntax%20Summary:%5B%5BShorthand%20Syntax%20Summary%5D%5D%20%5B%5BVariables%20vs.%20Parameters%5D%5D%20%5B%5BVariables%2C%20Fields%20and%20Filters%20in%20TiddlyWiki%5D%5D%20%5B%5BSyntax%20for%20Using%20Brackets%5D%5D%20%5B%5Bnesting%20the%20effect%20of%20brackets%5D%5D> >>> >>> You are quite right, the documentation in Tiddlywiki.com is nonlinear >>> and confusing for newbies. Perhaps a linear A to Z step by step tutorial is >>> better. >>> >>> Atro >>> >>> On Sun, Sep 27, 2020 at 10:22 AM Bob Jansen <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> I know and am very thankful of the many items of advice I have received >>>> in the past. But I am still frustrated - there must be some core element I >>>> am not understanding. >>>> >>>> The main issue is how to address items in wikitext, {{ [[ {{{ << < >>>> etc. I know this all depends on how the item is being used but a simple >>>> cheat sheet with many examples would be really useful. I don't find the >>>> Tiddlywiki documentation easy to follow, bits are all over the place and >>>> none of the examples address my problems I find. >>>> >>>> For example, why does this not work? >>>> >>>> <$button> >>>> <$action-setfield >>>> $tiddler="$:/TLS/exhibition_id" >>>> $value={{!!exhibition_id}} >>>> /> >>>> <!--append the exhibition_id to the exhibition id field in each >>>> artwork--> >>>> <$list filter="[tag[Mark]]"> >>>> <$action-setfield >>>> $field="exhibition_id" >>>> $value=<<TLSconcatenate {{!!exhibition_id}} >>>> {{$:/TLS/exhibition_id}}>> >>>> /> >>>> </$list> >>>> >>>> Link Artworks to Exhibition >>>> </$button> >>>> >>>> >>>> The result is the string {{!!exhibition_id}} {{$:/TLS/exhibition_id}} >>>> stored in the exhibition_id field of each artwork selected and not the >>>> transcluded values. >>>> >>>> TLSconcatenate is a simple macro to concatenate two strings >>>> >>>> \define TLSconcatenate(head tail) $head$$tail$ >>>> >>>> bobj >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups "TiddlyWiki" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>> an email to [email protected]. >>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/4cc4b26e-250b-4c7f-8590-fc0ae5dd7db0n%40googlegroups.com >>>> >>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/4cc4b26e-250b-4c7f-8590-fc0ae5dd7db0n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>> . >>>> >>> -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TiddlyWiki" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/9808087a-3d19-4c24-bd4b-058fd6ca2e39n%40googlegroups.com.
