Last night I came across a post that explains the history of the situation:
https://adrianroselli.com/2020/01/my-priority-of-methods-for-labeling-a-control.html Thus, if I'm understanding correctly, the WCAG standard requires the "for" attribute because neither Internet Explorer 11 nor Dragon Dictate supports nested labels. That makes a lot of sense. Best wishes Jeremy -- Jeremy Ruston [email protected] https://jermolene.com > On 28 Apr 2021, at 20:09, Jeremy Ruston <[email protected]> wrote: > > Hi Jean-Pierre > > I think you’re asking why the IDs can’t be handled automatically, without the > author having to worry about them. I think that that may be possible in > simple cases, but not in general. Typically one needs the same ID in multiple > places, which won’t happen just by using the qualify macro. It’s only the > simple cases where the two elements are adjacent within the same transclusion > that one can get away with using the qualify macro without needing to think > about what is actually going on. > > So, to summarise: > > * Yes, we can use IDs in TiddlyWiki, and we have extensive infrastructure > that can be used to simplify the job, but using those features requires an > understanding of what is going on. One may be able to package simple cases > like a label/input pair into a reusable macro, but it’s not possible to > encapsulate the complexity in general > * If you want to explore using IDs, it would be worth looking at the > infrastructure we have for dealing with qualified state tiddler titles > > Meanwhile, the frustrating thing remains that all of this is only necessary > because the WCAG spec ignores the underlying HTML spec (and the > implementations of browsers and screen readers). > > Best wishes > > Jeremy. > > > >> On 28 Apr 2021, at 19:50, Jean-Pierre Rivière <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >> <label for=<<qualify id>>>This is the label</label> >> <input id=<<qualify id>>/> >> >> This is hand-made html code. how would I be able to get the input behave in >> tiddlywiki as if it was done by the button widget? >> >> could a pragma like \useIdInButtons be used to allow a code like <$button >> actions=<<myMacro>> id=auto/> which would construct an input with an >> id=<<qualify id>>? No other value than "auto" would be allowed for "id", >> making uniformed use of it fail and force coders to look at the doc? >> >>> Le mercredi 28 avril 2021 à 17:34:14 UTC+2, [email protected] a écrit : >>> Hi Jean-Pierre >>> >>>> On 28 Apr 2021, at 15:48, Jean-Pierre Rivière <[email protected]> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Thank you for the clarification. I understand your point of view. >>>> >>>> Now if I want to have a go at it, for instance so that my input buttons >>>> can get an id from a parameter, how should I proceed? From where should I >>>> start? I'm sure this is not trivial but I'm eager to try. >>> >>> It’s essentially the same problem as we encounter when generating unique >>> state tiddler titles. Thus you could use the <<qualify>> macro like so: >>> >>> <label for=<<qualify id>>>This is the label</label> >>> <input id=<<qualify id>>/> >>> >>> The qualify macro returns its argument with a string of numbers appended >>> that is derived from the ancestor transclusions, making an ID that will be >>> unique within a transclusion. >>> >>> Best wishes >>> >>> Jeremy >>> >>> >>>> >>>> regards. >>>> >>>> Le mercredi 28 avril 2021 à 12:32:33 UTC+2, [email protected] a écrit : >>>>>> In a recent thread, Jeremy told me that having id elements is a bit of >>>>>> a problem because each tiddler can be transcluded more than once into >>>>>> any given tiddler' which would result into a broken html with a repeated >>>>>> id value. >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> This is true. >>>>>> >>>>>> But if id are required, shouldn't it be up to the programmer to make >>>>>> sure there is no problem? Of course, the doc would tell that specifying >>>>>> id is a tricky things to be done with great precaution. But this is IMHO >>>>>> better that forbidding id specification altogether. >>>>>> >>>>>> As was the exposed, this has to do with WCAG requirements ignoring the >>>>>> CORRECT HTML (stated as accessible on official docs) >>>>>> <label><input/></label> are requiring <label for=foo/><input id=foo/> as >>>>>> the only validating way of accessible code. (with some variations for >>>>>> WAI-ARIA) >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Just to be clear, the core doesn't forbid using "id" attributes, it's >>>>> perfectly possible to use them as long as care is taken. The thing that's >>>>> particularly hard is to use IDs within a reusable component without the >>>>> user of that component being aware of the mechanism. So, the core avoids >>>>> the complexity of these techniques. >>>>> >>>>> Best wishes >>>>> >>>>> Jeremy. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Jean-Pierre >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>> Groups "TiddlyWiki" group. >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>>>> an email to [email protected]. >>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/d739e00f-ba01-4425-b0d0-9730d6524986n%40googlegroups.com. >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>>> "TiddlyWiki" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>>> email to [email protected]. >>> >>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/0805f885-ed1b-441a-9552-50758afe0b1fn%40googlegroups.com. >>> >> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "TiddlyWiki" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected]. >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/4531f079-cb8d-40e3-a7a3-7817cb5568a3n%40googlegroups.com. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TiddlyWiki" group. 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