Hi, May be Jeremy was referring to: https://tiddlywiki.com/#qualify%20Macro:%5B%5Bqualify%20Macro%5D%5D%20%5B%5Bqualify%20Macro%20(Examples)%5D%5D%20StateMechanism -m
On Thursday, April 29, 2021 at 11:53:46 AM UTC+2 [email protected] wrote: > > Since Dragon is now owned by Microsoft which has dumped IE for edge, maybe > one of these days Dragon will understand the nested construct. Maybe... > this discussion was from 2019 when Microsoft was already the new owner of > Dragon. > > Waiting can be the best solution for us. :-) > > as for your counsel about looking for "looking at the infrastructure we > have for dealing with qualified state tiddler titles", can you be a little > bit more specific please? It's not evident to see what you mean. > > Le jeudi 29 avril 2021 à 09:19:03 UTC+2, [email protected] a écrit : > >> Last night I came across a post that explains the history of the >> situation: >> >> >> https://adrianroselli.com/2020/01/my-priority-of-methods-for-labeling-a-control.html >> >> Thus, if I'm understanding correctly, the WCAG standard requires the >> "for" attribute because neither Internet Explorer 11 nor Dragon Dictate >> supports nested labels. That makes a lot of sense. >> >> Best wishes >> >> Jeremy >> >> -- >> Jeremy Ruston >> [email protected] >> https://jermolene.com >> >> On 28 Apr 2021, at 20:09, Jeremy Ruston <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> Hi Jean-Pierre >> >> >> I think you’re asking why the IDs can’t be handled automatically, without >> the author having to worry about them. I think that that may be possible in >> simple cases, but not in general. Typically one needs the same ID in >> multiple places, which won’t happen just by using the qualify macro. It’s >> only the simple cases where the two elements are adjacent within the same >> transclusion that one can get away with using the qualify macro without >> needing to think about what is actually going on. >> >> So, to summarise: >> >> * Yes, we can use IDs in TiddlyWiki, and we have extensive infrastructure >> that can be used to simplify the job, but using those features requires an >> understanding of what is going on. One may be able to package simple cases >> like a label/input pair into a reusable macro, but it’s not possible to >> encapsulate the complexity in general >> * If you want to explore using IDs, it would be worth looking at the >> infrastructure we have for dealing with qualified state tiddler titles >> >> Meanwhile, the frustrating thing remains that all of this is only >> necessary because the WCAG spec ignores the underlying HTML spec (and the >> implementations of browsers and screen readers). >> >> Best wishes >> >> Jeremy. >> >> >> >> On 28 Apr 2021, at 19:50, Jean-Pierre Rivière <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >> <label for=<<qualify id>>>This is the label</label> >> <input id=<<qualify id>>/> >> >> This is hand-made html code. how would I be able to get the input behave >> in tiddlywiki as if it was done by the button widget? >> >> could a pragma like \useIdInButtons be used to allow a code like <$button >> actions=<<myMacro>> id=auto/> which would construct an input with an >> id=<<qualify id>>? No other value than "auto" would be allowed for "id", >> making uniformed use of it fail and force coders to look at the doc? >> >> Le mercredi 28 avril 2021 à 17:34:14 UTC+2, [email protected] a écrit : >> >>> Hi Jean-Pierre >>> >>> On 28 Apr 2021, at 15:48, Jean-Pierre Rivière <[email protected]> >>> wrote: >>> >>> Thank you for the clarification. I understand your point of view. >>> >>> Now if I want to have a go at it, for instance so that my input buttons >>> can get an id from a parameter, how should I proceed? From where should I >>> start? I'm sure this is not trivial but I'm eager to try. >>> >>> >>> It’s essentially the same problem as we encounter when generating unique >>> state tiddler titles. Thus you could use the <<qualify>> macro like so: >>> >>> <label for=<<qualify id>>>This is the label</label> >>> <input id=<<qualify id>>/> >>> >>> The qualify macro returns its argument with a string of numbers appended >>> that is derived from the ancestor transclusions, making an ID that will be >>> unique within a transclusion. >>> >>> Best wishes >>> >>> Jeremy >>> >>> >>> regards. >>> >>> Le mercredi 28 avril 2021 à 12:32:33 UTC+2, [email protected] a >>> écrit : >>> >>>> In a recent thread, Jeremy told me that having id elements is a bit of >>>> a problem because each tiddler can be transcluded more than once into any >>>> given tiddler' which would result into a broken html with a repeated id >>>> value. >>>> >>>> >>>> This is true. >>>> >>>> But if id are required, shouldn't it be up to the programmer to make >>>> sure there is no problem? Of course, the doc would tell that specifying id >>>> is a tricky things to be done with great precaution. But this is IMHO >>>> better that forbidding id specification altogether. >>>> >>>> As was the exposed, this has to do with WCAG requirements ignoring the >>>> CORRECT HTML (stated as accessible on official docs) >>>> <label><input/></label> are requiring <label for=foo/><input id=foo/> as >>>> the only validating way of accessible code. (with some variations for >>>> WAI-ARIA) >>>> >>>> >>>> Just to be clear, the core doesn't forbid using "id" attributes, it's >>>> perfectly possible to use them as long as care is taken. The thing that's >>>> particularly hard is to use IDs within a reusable component without the >>>> user of that component being aware of the mechanism. So, the core avoids >>>> the complexity of these techniques. >>>> >>>> Best wishes >>>> >>>> Jeremy. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Jean-Pierre >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups "TiddlyWiki" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>> an email to [email protected]. >>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/d739e00f-ba01-4425-b0d0-9730d6524986n%40googlegroups.com >>>> >>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/d739e00f-ba01-4425-b0d0-9730d6524986n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>> . >>>> >>>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "TiddlyWiki" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to [email protected]. >>> >>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/0805f885-ed1b-441a-9552-50758afe0b1fn%40googlegroups.com >>> >>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/0805f885-ed1b-441a-9552-50758afe0b1fn%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>> . >>> >>> >>> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "TiddlyWiki" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected]. >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/4531f079-cb8d-40e3-a7a3-7817cb5568a3n%40googlegroups.com >> >> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/4531f079-cb8d-40e3-a7a3-7817cb5568a3n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >> . >> >> >> -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TiddlyWiki" group. 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