Well you did ask "What does “nicely designed” mean?". Imo it only has two meaning - following "universal" design rules and/or personal preferences. Rather than discouraging, showing how we can make TiddlyWiki beautiful could inspire people to be more creative, especially since TW community is very supportive and friendly. Function is as important as design, because no matter how useful something is, if it's not pleasing to use (ie, the UX is bad) then it will not be used.
I agree with you, both "usefulness" and design are important. Projects like Nico's Notebook theme or Muuri Storyview by BurningTreeC helps bring more people aboard the TiddlyWiki train, and not only tech enthusiasts. Here's another great wiki with an unique design that I like: https://philosopher.life/ Le lun. 25 oct. 2021 à 02:18, Charlie Veniot <cj.ven...@gmail.com> a écrit : > Oh good lord, please don't. Good design has been part of my bread and > butter since 1995, and I enjoy it very much in that context, but it is an > annoying topic for me outside of work. > > However, that kind of stuff might be of interest to a whole bunch of other > folk, but really should be in a separate thread. > > My point is: I am concerned that "pretty" becomes something too important > in general, something that discourages anyone from demonstrating some > wildly good stuff done with TiddlyWiki just because the community has put a > premium on "pretty" when not all folk have the time/desire/skill to apply > all of the theories of pretty design. > > There's nothing wrong with pretty design, but I look past that really > quick because it is a fluffy distraction from the substantial stuff: what > is it doing, why is it doing it, when is it doing it, and how is it doing > it? > > Most folk may not agree, but a pretty TW does not in my mind's eye make > for appearance of alive. > > All of that aside: if there's a desire to put together a gallery, be > careful focusing on pretty. If you're going to pitch TiddlyWiki based on > pretty, there are all kinds of products out there that do pretty, and very > easy for the layperson to do pretty with those products. Might be hard for > TiddlyWiki to compete with other products when it comes to easy-of-pretty. > However, TiddlyWiki kills at being a platform for solutions. > > If you want to showcase TiddlyWiki, then find the solutions, a bunch of > folk who want to make them pretty, go ahead and make them pretty, then > showcase the hell out of the solutions. > > > > > On Sunday, October 24, 2021 at 7:24:08 PM UTC-3 Télumire wrote: > >> http://atlas-disciplines.unige.ch/ is a beautiful example of what can be >> done with TW. >> I've learned about it thanks to Soren Bjornstad in his book >> GrokTiddlywiki : https://groktiddlywiki.com/read/#Public%20Wikis >> >> @Charlie_Veniot while beauty is indeed subjective, it is possible to use >> things like psychology and color theory to create a good design. >> See https://www.nngroup.com/topic/psychology-and-ux/ for example - I can >> provide more links if you are interested ^^ >> Le samedi 23 octobre 2021 à 16:27:01 UTC+2, hww...@gmail.com a écrit : >> >>> Cade: >>> >>> I appreciate your interesting comments, perhaps because my age has >>> advanced to the stage that my medical data is of much greater importance to >>> me. Also, I have become much more cynical about medical practitioners who >>> share data with the BigPharma oligopoly and the inevitable consequences of >>> well-intended attempts to make all of a patient's data available on-line so >>> that GPs and Specialist can share a holistic view of a patient. >>> >>> For my part, I am much more inclined to build by own repository of all >>> my medical information and share it with just the practitioners I trust and >>> select as care-providers. This is particularly true now that the >>> clinic-based GP I start with, suggests that I find my own specialists, that >>> he can then refer me to, since the Administrative wait times are on the >>> order of a year for a referral. >>> >>> In that context, I am inclined to ask you "What are the impediments to >>> sharing the ... cardiovascular Data ..." you have. Particularly given that >>> you already understand fine-grained design concepts and that is should be >>> possible to use these to anonymize a selective view of the information. >>> >>> Regards, >>> Hans >>> >>> >>> On Tuesday, October 19, 2021 at 11:18:29 PM UTC-4 Cade Roux wrote: >>> >>>> I wish I could share the TWs we generate for our cardiovascular Data >>>> Mart product here. We generate the data dictionary/manual in a TW and all >>>> our test outputs are in a few TWs organized by test groupings. It >>>> definitely satisfies 2 and 3, as far as 1, I am still tweaking it to be >>>> more and more attractive and useful all the time. We started off very >>>> simply because we didn't want to commit too deeply down a path which would >>>> limit us from retargeting our documentation to HTML or Word later. >>>> However, as we progressed, it was more and more accepted to start using TW >>>> features more heavily as stakeholders started to get the hang of it, and >>>> there are some fundamental aspects of TW which we have taken advantage of >>>> to solve traditional problems in code/document generation: >>>> >>>> Transclusion means that we can have parts of the TW that are manually >>>> edited and parts that are generated and that work can go along >>>> independently with each feeding off the other, without requiring >>>> significant synchronization between engineering staff and informatics staff >>>> - changes to the code/rules can be done independent of editing the TW >>>> template file independent of the data that is going to be imported from >>>> JSON to fill out many lookup tables and generate necessary tiddlers and >>>> indexes. Normally with code/document generation, you have to decide >>>> whether the template or the content is driving the design and what we've >>>> found with TW is both are on pretty equal footing compared to past >>>> techniques like in Excel or Word where areas have to be labeled and then >>>> only designated labeled areas can be filled in and there really isn't >>>> referencing back and forth. And you have to decide where longer narratives >>>> are stored and how they get combined in the document. And you have to >>>> decide how to handle multiple passes so that you can embed generated >>>> content in user content inside the generated content. That is simple for >>>> us, they are always in a tiddler, potentially itself transcluding generated >>>> data, and it's all seamlessly handled by transclusion. >>>> >>>> Macros/filters mean that the document in many cases is data driven on >>>> its own using TW features. Typically in a Word or HTML document >>>> generation, you would have to generate the index, often our indexes are not >>>> even generated - they are tiddler list macros on tiddlers with dedicated >>>> transclusion points for including manual edited tiddlers in appropriate >>>> places. Sure Word can generate a table of contents based on the heading >>>> structure in your document. That is nothing compared to what TW does for >>>> us because of how we tag everything in custom fields and then can have all >>>> kinds of options for organizing and displaying indexes of the same data. >>>> >>>> Tiddler grain - do everything at a small meaningful grain and tag/label >>>> data fully in custom fields. A lot of this could be done with an HTML site >>>> generator, but TW has really saved a lot of work for us by us buying into >>>> the TW philosophy of fine-grained tiddlers. So we use custom fields and >>>> tags and filters and generate tiddlers appropriately tagged for every >>>> element of our Data Mart and then they merge seamlessly with manually >>>> created tiddlers and index tiddlers which know how to group up different >>>> tags. >>>> >>>> I know there are other tools we could have looked at, but based on what >>>> we did with TW, I am not confident that we would have achieved what we did, >>>> or as well, or as flexibly accommodating the ongoing releases of our Data >>>> Mart as we curate more and more data, with any other product or technique. >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> >>>> Cade >>>> >>>> On Tuesday, October 19, 2021 at 5:13:36 PM UTC-5 cj.v...@gmail.com >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> I'm not clear on what exactly the problem is. >>>>> >>>>> What problem are we trying to solve, how will making TW appear alive >>>>> solve it? Alive to who? And alive how? >>>>> >>>>> Yeah, I think I'm either over-analyzing things or things are too >>>>> broad/unclear for me to contribute anything useful. >>>>> >>>>> I do look forward to seeing how this discussion thread evolves. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Tuesday, October 19, 2021 at 5:33:46 PM UTC-3 Mat wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> What does "nicely designed" mean? I may find something wonderfully >>>>>>> designed, while 99% of normal folk find the same thing awful. >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> So I'm talking about appealing to the 99%. If we look at, say, the >>>>>> "clothes design industry" we should realize how incredibly narrow our >>>>>> tastes are if we consider that clothes really could be designed in >>>>>> unlimited number of ways. Most of us have similar preferences about most >>>>>> things. (Of course, you and I have our own distinguished tastes and free >>>>>> minds... and that very belief is another thing we have in common with >>>>>> almost all other people.) >>>>>> >>>>>> [...], and who cares whether it looks abandoned or not? >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Before people become full tiddlywikians, then need to decide if they >>>>>> want to try out TW to begin with. At that stage, impressions and feelings >>>>>> matter a lot. Things that look abandoned or outdated are generally less >>>>>> appealing than things that look up to date and alive. I'm pretty sure >>>>>> people are more interested in a software where it says "October 19, 2021" >>>>>> instead of , say, "May 7, 2018". >>>>>> >>>>>> [...] the best thing is to continously/regularly update it. >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Of course, but that means responsibility and effort... >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> An alternative/complimentary approach might involve having the wiki >>>>>>> acting a bit like a portal, showing some dynamic content from somewhere >>>>>>> else so it looks like the TiddlyWiki has a pulse ? >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Yes, that is a good idea. Any good examples of how this can be done? >>>>>> >>>>>> <:-) >>>>>> >>>>> -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "TiddlyWiki" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/e77875a8-d311-48e5-89b5-5d6591b408a0n%40googlegroups.com > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/e77875a8-d311-48e5-89b5-5d6591b408a0n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> > . > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TiddlyWiki" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/CADf1GSmDeygAP4fk0WhHd4nxmb2tVM2CbB9U1e1_BpuDpQhDLg%40mail.gmail.com.
