I am following this conversation thread with great interest and my non-
technical legs are paddling as fast they can to keep up. Jeremy is
right that our recently-awarded Comic Relief funding for the AMBIT
project (http://tiddlymanuals.tiddlyspot.com/#%5B%5BAMBIT%20-
%20Adolescent%20Mentalization-Based%20Integrative%20Therapy%5D%5D)
includes a component for training non-technical users (therapists/
youth workers/etc) to use TiddlySpace as a way to support their
practice - hence my desire to be fractionally ahead of the game!
I think that a chance to discuss (face to face) the ways that
TiddlySpace could/should work for its users would be really helpful
fairly soon, and I wonder if Osmosoft might be able to host that? In
particular I would like to have the chance to think more about the
quite profound implications required in understanding the most basic
machinery/foundations of TiddlySpace interaction, which seem to me to
more closely resemble/facilitate 'non-digitally-mediated' human
relationships than other social networking platforms. The three key
aspects seem to me to be:
(a) the division of every space into Public and Private domains
(b) the notion of the 'Trusted Group'
(b) the notion of Inclusion (of the public domains of other people's/
groups' Spaces) as the core 'method of intercourse'
The analogy of a cell or amoeba that is filled with multiple
'vacuoles' is what comes to mind (as per the excellent TiddlySpace
graphical representation of blue and pink bubbles) when I think about
this, though of course each separate 'vacuole' may contain within it
other vacuoles, etc, etc, ad infinitum.
So one of the questions I am wrestling with is the extent to which a
big site like the AMBIT manual would benefit (or not) from actually
being a whole set of 'smaller' spaces included within a larger AMBIT
'membrane' - (say a separate Space relating to "Work with the
Individual", and others for "Work with the Family", or "Work with the
Care network", or Spaces for more technical functions (we have an
interactive assessment questionnaire, for instance...) etc.) In this
way a large area of knowledge uses multiple different Spaces as if
they were 'modular' chapters that can integrate and interact with
other 'chapters', but which can be included, or omitted, by specific
teams who take on AMBIT as a framework for working.
What you also seem to be discussing here however, is a third kind of
place (neither my space, nor the spaces of others that I have included
to enrich the content of my space) which is a sort of trusted central
resource/reference that can act as a front door and signposting site
for the new user arriving at TiddlySpace, who may want a range of
technical help, and showcases of 'best practice'. Is that right?
>From the perspective of an end-user (or at least someone trying to
design stuff for end-users) I am thinking "What kind of
TiddlySpaceHelp would I want to be able to include in my AMBIT
space?" ...and this is harder, as there are likely to be so many
variables about how I have set my particular tiddlyspace up to work
that a generic "this is how tiddlywiki behave, and can be manipulated"
is likely to be TOO generic for most of my users - although
undoubtedly some will be hooked and will want to delve deeper!
I am imagining that many of the requirements for "technical help" from
users of the AMBIT tiddlymanual will be highly locally specific
("where is the button to click in order to get to the AMBIT assessment
framework?", or "why can't I get my downloaded AMBIT assessment form
to export data?") - more generic material such as "what is a
tiddler?", or "What is a tag?" "printing TiddlyWiki", may still be
useful, I guess... Hope some of that is helpful.
Dickon
On 22 Sep, 11:09, Jeremy Ruston <[email protected]> wrote:
> > Sorry but it's not Tobias behind this. Anything 'theme-beautiful'
> > there are thanks to his Pearl theme (see #CRED). Anything less pretty
> > is me :-)
>
> Apologies Matias. That CRED tiddler might be better called "Credits", perhaps?
>
> >> [...]the community would benefit as it would
> >> allow us to present a much more unified, one stop shop for users.
>
> >> I have some thoughts in terms of how that community could work in the
> >> context of TiddlySpace, and I think TiddlyWorld fits in nicely.
>
> > GREAT to hear! Does this mean it is in the pipeline for Osmosoft? If
> > Osmo or any other individual authority in the community already has
> > plans for this in a not too distant future then I'd be more than happy
> > to let this rest. The current attempt is difficult in that I'm neither
> > a name here nor a coder and thus lack credibility and competence. My
> > approach to deal with this is a hope for competent people to
> > understand what a valuable project it is (for the community) and
> > support it.
>
> How I envisage it is that TiddlySpace itself is a fabric that supports
> individual interactions. Osmosoft will kick-start curating the front
> page site, but the whole point is that rather than having "THE"
> community site, we'd have a plethora of sites focussing on different
> aspects of the community, created from different perspectives. Users
> would enter this world through the front page in the first place but
> would in due course, like Twitter, build their own community networks.
> All of this is possible because of the way that TiddlySpace allows the
> inclusion of spaces, so that people can curate community sites that
> bring together the best of the material that they like.
>
> Already in TiddlyWiki we're blessed with some fantastic community
> resources that have been lovingly curated by people like Dave Gifford.
> All I'm imagining is that that process will continue, with the
> difference that people will be able to weave their own communities.
>
> For example, Dickon's work involves training end-users to use
> TiddlySpace. They won't necessarily be using all the features, just
> simple stuff like navigating between tiddlers, and perhaps adding and
> removing tags. Rather than writing a new manual from scratch,
> TiddlySpace will let Dickon bring together a subset of the wider
> community documentation and hence present a simpler experience to his
> end users. (I use the future tense because there's currently no user
> interface available for filtered space inclusion).
>
> > Whoever and hower it is manifested, my only concern is that it should
> > be MUCH more user centric than the "hacker creations" we see today
> > (GREAT as they are, in their own way!!!). Something more "main
> > stream", for Jack'n Jill. Like what Apple Inc would do with it ;-)
>
> Absolutely. There is a continuum from the very technical material to
> the introductory/guide material. I believe it's reasonable for
> TiddlyWiki/Space to have a single, authoritative source for the truly
> technical documentation, but at the other end of the scale I've found
> that people need, and naturally generate, a plurality of material to
> cover the different perspectives that end users will have.
>
> > Your/the 'curation' approach to avoid spam and moderation sounds
> > fantastic! You describe a Q & A type scenario, which reminds me of
> >http://wiki.answers.com/
> > but do you think it would be applicable to a discussion forum?
>
> The point that I'm trying to make is that TiddlySpace itself is
> designed to support discussion through its social features, notably
> following and activity streams. The only sense that we need to "build"
> a discussion forum is that we need to make the user interface have
> clearer signposts for users to discover how actions on conventional
> systems like bulletin boards work on TiddlySpace.
>
> > For something as complex as a TW based discussion forum, is the plan
> > that TSpace enables blocking of posts (tiddlers) from individuals? I.e
> > "I include space X but I dislike individual Y so don't show his
> > posts"? (This isn't possible today, is it?)
>
> That is correct, it will be possible to filter space inclusion on a
> number of criteria. It is actually already possible beneath the hood,
> there just isn't a user interface implemented yet.
>
> > I agree but, hm, are you implying this lessens the need for a central
> > place? The more showcases, applications, tiddlers and anything - the
> > more we need a central place to inform of WHERE to find those
> > showcases. And HOW. And even WHY, i.e why is "A better than B" (meta-
> > data), etc.
>
> I see the role for a central hub to be similar to the role of the
> twitter.com homepage: it can showcase material and provide jumping off
> points to explore the world of TiddlySpace. I'd like to evolve some
> kind of reasonably democratic process so that people can get their
> spaces featured, and it might be interesting to have things like
> trending topics, again, like Twitter.
>
> >> The basic principles are:
> >> * people only ever change or add content to their own space. Unlike
> >> MyBB, there are no shared spaces that can be abused by spammers or the
> >> antisocial
>
> > (Note:http://tiddlyworld.tiddlyspace.com/ doesn't refer to MyBB but
> > rather the community sitehttp://www.mybb.com/)
>
> In either case, the system works by providing a common area into which
> people post their questions. The model of TiddlySpace is different in
> that people can only write into their own spaces.
>
> >> * people can create derived works based on material published from
> >> other spaces, including rich filtering and sorting
>
> > To what extent is this possible today in TSpace? Is for instance any
> > automatic filtering possible?
>
> Filtering can only be done by manually altering the underlying
> TiddlyWeb recipes. Any changes will currently get overwritten if any
> of the TiddlySpace user interface facilities for manipulating space
> inclusion is used.
>
> Cheers
>
> Jeremy
>
> > Great input everyone and do please state your Tspace ID so it can be
> > added to:
>
> >http://tiddlyworld.tiddlyspace.com/
>
> > :-)
>
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> --
> Jeremy Ruston
> mailto:[email protected]://www.tiddlywiki.com
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