Hi Vincent, this relates to the following discussion from the TiddlyWikiGroup: https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups=#!topic/tiddlywiki/n7LTYB7toXs
Answers in the next post... Thursday, 7. March 2013 08:25:10 UTC+1 by Vincent Yeh: > > Tobias, > >> >> Locally, I can now edit things. Quite a lot of functionality you've put >> in there, looking at all the options. >> >> What I do like... >> >> - being able to click and edit stuff right at the spot >> - being able to trigger formatting using __, // and '' >> - although you must know that you need to close it the very same >> way you openened it which also holds true for TiddlyWiki markup, yet >> from >> WYSIWYG I would expect otherwise >> >> >> Please forgive me for the length of the following list, but I must say >> that I find the current editing / preview in many respects quite >> un-intuitive. >> >> > I am very glad to receive constructive comments, especially when they are > long. That means you had spent a lot of time trying and writing, and that > tells me you think it could be useful. I am very thankful for that. > > Many of your comments are from the editor's point of view instead of the > coder's. They are showing me good directions. I like them! I understand > many of them are confusing, some of them confused me, too. It's still > primitive and under development, many of them will be fixed along the way. > > >> So here are the things that I find confusing... >> >> - there are so many modes and they are switching somewhat arbitrarily >> back and forth >> - by default, there is the view-mode of the element >> - then, when I click on the edit button for something editable, there >> (sometimes) is a plain text input >> - above it (sometimes immediately) a preview panel appears >> - (sometimes) also a (browser?) dropdown may appear below the text >> input showing the last edit >> - then the simple input disappears when I use arrow keys and the >> preview panel turns into an even bigger preview >> - however, sometimes, both the input and the preview panel are >> displayed together, yet entering happens only in the preview panel, which >> I >> find rather confusing >> - the preview is translucent, which can help understanding what >> happens, but watching the actual wikitext below has a somwhat debug'ish >> feel to it >> - the preview editor being a lot bigger than the item itself and not >> at exactly the same spot as the element being edited makes things jump >> around quite a bit, not to mention my focus ...it all feels very >> fiddly >> - in edit mode, the popup preview sometimes overlays the editor, so I >> can't get to or see what I am entering >> - other times, if I toggle up and down keys, the mode toggles between >> preview editor and text input ...however, inputing text switches back to >> the preview editor... that's a whole lot of jumpiness whereas I never >> quite >> know whether I edit or view something and where exactly >> - using up and down arrows may make the editor jump quite farther >> than I'd expect, leaving out some text between >> - after I hit enter on an element, the input box may be displayed >> again... why? ...I'd believe hitting enter means done >> - there is no more double clicking to edit the tiddler ...and I >> really did want to >> - then, markup magically (but partially) appears (like @@) using left >> and right keys in the editor (very confusing) and I can't (or worse, >> really >> shouldn't try to) edit anything, because if I (accidentally) put >> something >> between @@ and dare hit enter, then it all gets scrambled >> - (un)indenting lists is very difficult; it took quite a while before >> I kind of figured it out (somewhat) ...but I was never sure, If I had it >> right >> - copy and paste is quite difficult as you may actually input stuff >> at the wrong spot (or end) and thus eliminate some crucial markup >> - underneath it all still is the old dom element rendered as before, >> but (almost) empty ...current list bullets are still there >> - when I try to get at the start of a line, I often find myself >> jumping to the previous element, same at the end for jumping to the next >> element >> - on some edits the whole tiddler refreshes, so the spot I edited now >> is back to view mode and getting back to where I was involves another >> round >> of fiddling >> - then the preview also (sometimes) displays nested lists (even >> though I can see them already)... however editing obviously has focus >> only >> on one item, so it jumps back (if it actually does)... so, the multiline >> preview / editing really just clutters the view >> - selecting (the right text) or any text sometimes works, sometimes >> it doesn't and you need to click some more (at the right spot, if you >> find >> it using the mouse) >> - actually, selecting text using ctrl+shift+arrow happens in the >> input underneath the popup ...so you kind of see what you select... kind >> of >> >> >> I guess, for an inline-edit mode, my personal suggestion would be more along >> one of these methods... >> >> a) (ctrl-)clicking an editable item, a simple text input / textarea >> would appear (by default) below the thing that I want to edit and editing >> the text *immediately* wikifies the edits at the corresponding dom >> element being edited. Once, I click save, saving the new wiki text should >> be somewhat a snap, as I have already entered wiki format. >> >> This is what I was heading. As I was trying I found some of the elements > are easy to be refreshed, while others not, especially those with > "sub-elements of the same type" (like sub-lists in a list or > sub-blockquotes in a blockquote). So the current solution is to wikify the > text in a preview panel and leave the original element untouched until > changes accepted. I am still working in this direction and hopefully a good > solution will come out soon. > > >> b) pseudo-edit the dom element directly by inserting text, >> character-by-character ...yet only providing for the most basic markup, >> like bold, italic and underline... not the whole fancy-schmancy. If at all, >> in this mode, any changing of dom structure, like (un)indenting lists >> should happen instantly... no clicking enter to save and see ...using tab >> and shift-tab for lists or headings. Anyhow, in live-preview-mode, I would >> *never* show any wiki markup in the input. The input could really be 1 >> character wide directly in the location where you expect the result and >> just be 'where you type'... while being immediataly rendered. >> >> In both cases a) or b), the original dom element(s) being edited would be >> *hidden* and you would rather edit an initially 1:1 copy... modifiying >> it directly with your edits. Clicking enter would 'commit' the changes and >> replace the original element with the new stuff while saving the tiddler if >> applicable. >> >> Whether a) or b) are possible or only some parts of it, I would not know. >> However, I would not mix both. Either I edit using plain wikitext at the >> size of an element -- or I edit WYSIWYGishly in-place with the most >> minimalistic input element... the rest remains 'as is', no additional popup >> or panels. >> > > My opinion is they are possible, at least a good part of them. It's not > yet, but will be. > > >> >> All in all, editing to me is the mode where I want to do nothing but use >> the keyboard. Really, moving the mouse to the right spot should always be a >> means of last resort. The best editing environment to me is something like >> WriteRoom or FocusWriter... totally distraction free... why would I need or >> want to learn about editor features that I hardly ever need to use? >> >> > That's a good direction to think about. Thanks. > > >> >> I guess I more and more find myself a passionate markup proponent. If >> anything, I would suggest a watered down preview in edit mode whereas the >> text is only partially wikified for the given context in a preview pane >> that never distracts me from writing stuff. >> >> Kind regards, Tobias. >> > > Thanks a lot for the comments and suggestions. They really gave me good > directions and inspirations. > > Best regards, > Vincent > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TiddlyWikiDev" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/tiddlywikidev?hl=en. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
