Like this polemic didn't worsen the S/N ratio?
On Wed, Jul 13, 2011 at 10:07 PM, WB6BNQ <wb6...@cox.net> wrote: > Will, > > Did you actually read what I wrote ? I ask because your response, below, > would > suggest a low comprehension rate. I noted a number of your responses fall > into > the same category. Such responses, having no substantive material, do > nothing > but add noise to the list. This list is suppose to be a low noise level > list. > Technical discussions on topics specific to the list is one thing, but > protracted > BS where everyone chimes in on what kind of watch they wear is another > matter. > > How do you know these "guys" in Asia "LIKE TO PLAY" with them ? Do you > know > "them" personally ? They are business people and yes they investigated > some > units to determine what is needed to make the product useable to their > customers. It is a business effort, not a play ground. By the way, I > think I > can safely say one seller did the work and others are just copying him to a > large > degree. > > I like how you feel it is more about who had them and your not sure about > the pin > number but it is out there in a PDF somewhere. How does that apply to the > two > units that are stated as having a problem where it is indicated it may be > other > then programming ? > > Another example is the "Broadband synthesizer" thread. The asking party, > while > being way too generalized, did use the word synthesizer and referred to > milli-Hertz resolution. Clearly not at all within the realm of a 8640B, > yet you > did it three times. But, then again, I guess you missed that part of it in > your > enthusiastic effort to make a response. > > Yes ! I am jumping your case a bit, but it also applies to others and > hopefully > they are smart enough to realize it. No, I have no intention of being > politically correct. I also think a kid who failed a school year should > not get > passed on. If they are screwing up they should get told about it, even if > it > hurts their feelings. > > I guess what I am saying is for people to have some respect for the stated > intentions of this mail list and try to rise to that ideal. I am also > saying > some effort ought to be put forth in trying some critical thinking. > > Oh, by the way, as they say in Chicago; Its nothing personal, just > business. > > Bill....WB6BNQ > > > Will Matney wrote: > > > I think it's more in who had them and tried to calibrate them, as some of > > these are actually programmed for the desired frequency. I forget which > pin > > that is, but I think it may show it in one of the pdfs. There's another > pdf > > available out there from a ham who did a lot with these, and it did show > > how to program/calibrate them. > > > > I know a few of the guy's over in Asia like to play with these before > they > > sell them, so I think a lot of it's all in whom you get them from. > > > > Best, > > > > Will > > > > *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** > > > > On 7/13/2011 at 4:56 PM WB6BNQ wrote: > > > > ?David, > > ? > > ?The answer to your question is quite complex. A number of factors > control > > the > > ?operation of a passive atomic resonator acting as a filter. > Temperature, > > pressure, > > ?buffer gas mixtures, external magnetic forces, coupled light excitation, > > the length > > ?of the cavity, the interrogating external RF energy level are but some > of > > those > > ?factors. > > ? > > ?The "Atomic" nature of the filter is based upon the extremely narrow > > resonance of > > ?electron absorption of energy which occurs at a specific frequency and > is > > influenced > > ?by the previously mentioned factors. That specific RF excitation > > frequency is > > ?different for each element in the Periodic Table. For example the > > Hydrogen Maser is > > ?around 1.45 GHz; the Rubidium is in the 6 Ghz range and the Cesium is in > > the 9 Ghz > > ?range. > > ? > > ?None of the specification sheets even approach trying to answer such a > > question > > ?directly. However, with certain qualifying assumptions, it could be > > inferred from > > ?"certain" specs, if available, as a general idea, BUT, by no means the > > complete > > ?answer. > > ? > > ?For example, looking at Symmetricom's XPRO Rubidium spec sheet, they > give > > a 10 year > > ?spec of ?+/-1x10e-9. The assumption is the unit was built correctly, > was > > adjusted > > ?to be precisely on frequency at its intended installation site and was > > left powered > > ?on, in a stable atmosphere, without failures of any kind for the entire > 10 > > years. > > ?If the product truly met those assumptions and specs, then I would say, > > with some > > ?confidence, that if you picked up a used one working properly that it > > would be > > ?reasonable to assume after powering up and allowing it to come to a > stable > > ?temperature (24 hours) and it indicated a locked condition that it would > > be within > > ?1x10e-9 of the correct frequency. Unfortunately, FEI is not so forth > > coming with > > ?their product literature, but I suspect their units are similar. > > ? > > ?Also, be aware that at least one member on this list has reported buying > > two 5680A's > > ?from China and they were both significantly off frequency by many hertz. > > Inspection > > ?and determination of the problem is a project in motion. This same > member > > has > > ?further stated other reports exist on the WEB of other units exhibiting > > the same > > ?problem, although I have not seen those reports. > > ? > > ?It may prove out that the two 5680A's have a problem. It is equally > > possible that > > ?they are deliberately offset for some specified yet unknown reason. > Time > > will tell. > > ? > > ?While a Cesium frequency standard is by definition and without question > > accurate, > > ?that only applies under a narrow set of circumstances. It is possible > to > > miss > > ?adjust such a beast and that is why multiple standards labs constantly > > cross check > > ?themselves. > > ? > > ?Remember, to error is human and machines do what we tell them ! > > ? > > ?Bill....WB6BNQ > > ? > > ? > > ?"Dr. David Kirkby" wrote: > > ? > > ?? If an old random 10 MHz Rubidium oscillator is working (i.e. powers > up, > > and > > ?? eventually locks), what is the maximum possible frequency error it > could > > have? > > ?? > > ?? Could it remained locked with an error of 1 part in 10^7, 10^8, 10^9, > > 10^10 etc? > > ?? > > ?? I assume there are physical limits which would simply stop it > > functioning too > > ?? far from the correct frequency, but don't have much clue what they > are. > > ?? > > ?? -- > > ?? A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. > > ?? Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? > > ?? A: Top-posting. > > ?? Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail? > > ?? > > ?? _______________________________________________ > > ?? time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > > ?? 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