At the bottom right of the page is a list of slidelocks. You should be able to put together what you need from that.
http://www.mouser.com/catalogviewer/default.aspx?page=1605&highlight=706-160X10689X&catalogculture=en-US&catalog=647 Bob - AE6RV From: Tom Miller <[email protected]> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2014 11:27 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Lucent KS-24361, HP/Symmetricom Z3809A, Z3810A, Z3811A, Z3812... I am surprised the schematics for these have not surfaced yet. Are they not out of support now? I got a set and am awaiting on a power supply and some connectors. Anyone have a source for the latches for the D connectors? Tom ----- Original Message ----- From: "Anthony Roby" <[email protected]> To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement" <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2014 10:39 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Lucent KS-24361, HP/Symmetricom Z3809A, Z3810A, Z3811A, Z3812... > My curiosity got the better of me so I ordered these earlier this week and > received them today. > > I've powered both up and quickly measured the 10MHz output. I don't yet > have a GPS antenna feed that I can connect, so couldn't check that out. > And I need to look into why both of the units have the Fault and StdBy > lights illuminated. I was surprised how compact they are and they weight > next to nothing. And they are very nicely made. I took the tops off both > and took some photos (see http://goo.gl/87e8GG), but have not ventured > into unscrewing everything to get to the bottom of the boards. From the > top, I didn't immediately spot anything extra on the board for the 10MHz > out. All the extras appear to be for the GPS, but the underside of the > boards may tell a different story. > > Anthony > > -----Original Message----- > From: time-nuts [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Bob > Stewart > Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2014 12:20 PM > To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement > Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Lucent KS-24361, HP/Symmetricom Z3809A, Z3810A, > Z3811A, Z3812... > > My units came in today. What I got appears to be new-in-box. It's probably > the only thing I'll ever get with a blue Agilent sticker on the box. =) It > has a yellow Symmetricom notice inside the box. > The circuit board appears to be the same on both units, but that says > nothing about the firmware, of course. The REF-1 has an Oncore receiver > labeled TM-AB - whichever one that is, small parts to support it, and a > TNC connector for the GPS receiver. > > The REF-0 is missing everything related to the receiver, and has an SMA > for the 10MHz output in the space where the REF-1 has the TNC along with a > few extra small parts. This is a shared space with both SMA and TNC pads, > though they don't seem to share the same electrical path. Since the SMA > and TNC share the same physical space, even if the 10MHz is available > somewhere, you'd have to do some surgery on the case before you could > bring it out. Probably by adding a hole in the case for the GPS antenna > and using the pad space for the SMA. > > It will be a day or two before I have the bits to apply power and connect > an antenna. So, that's what I know. I'd probably just break something if I > tried to find and bring out the 10MHz, so I'll have to leave that to > someone else. But, the appropriate signals need to get between the boards, > so I wonder what's on the Interface pins? Maybe just arbitration, 1PPS, > and sawtooth comms? > In my case, I do need the 10MHz, so I'm just as happy to have bought both > units at this point. Maybe, down the road, someone will come up with the > mods to convert a REF-1 into a REF-0, and vice versa, unless the firmware > prevents that. > > Bob > From: GandalfG8--- via time-nuts <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2014 5:59 AM > Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Lucent KS-24361, HP/Symmetricom Z3809A, Z3810A, > Z3811A, Z3812... > > It seems from the auction revision table that this seller has been > offering these for some time, so perhaps another "hidden" gem:-), but > it's perhaps also worth noting that if this system functions on similar > principles to earlier RFTG kit then the GPS conditioning is only applied > to the unit actually containing the GPS module, with the other unit > intended as a standby should the first one fail. > > In other words, unless the system redundancy is really required most users > would probably only need the GPS based unit, or would at least be better > off buying two of those for the same money that the "matched" pair would > cost. > > The only advantage, as far as I'm aware anyway, of the non-GPS unit is > that it contains a 10MHz output. > However, Skip Withrow published modification details in January 2013 > showing how straightforward it was to add the the 10MHz output, to the > RFTGm-II-XO module, the PCB location for the socket was already available, > so I would suspect it wouldn't be too difficult on these either. > > Regards > > Nigel > GM8PZR > > > In a message dated 20/10/2014 05:53:29 GMT Daylight Time, > [email protected] writes: > > Fellow time-nuts, > > This (long) post is a review of the HP/Symmetricom Z3810A (or Z3810AS) > GPSDO system built for Lucent circa 2000. I wrote it because I looked for > more information before I bought one, and couldn't find much. > It's relevant because (as of this writing), you can buy a full system on > the usual auction site for about $150 plus shipping. For those of you > lamenting the dearth of cheap Thunderbolts, this looks like one of the > best deals going. The description of these objects does not include > "GPSDO", so time-nuts may have missed it. Search for one of the part > numbers in the subject line and you should find it. > > So what is it? It's a dual GPSDO built by HP as a reference (Redundant > Frequency and Time Generator, or RFTG) for a Lucent cell-phone base > station, built to Lucent's spec KS-24361. Internally, it's a close cousin > of a later-model Z3805A. Externally, it looks to be almost a drop-in > replacement for the earlier RFTG system built to Lucent's spec KS-24019. > That was a redundant system containing one rubidium (LPRO, in the one I > have) and one OCXO in two almost-identical boxes. That spec went through > several revisions with slightly different nameplates and presumably > slightly different internals. You can generally find one or two examples > on the auction site (search for RFTG or KS-24019). > > This system is similar, but the two boxes each contain a Milliren > (MTI) 260-0624-C 5.000MHz DOCXO, and neither contains a rubidium. The > Milliren DOXCO is the same one used in the later models of the HP Z3805A / > 58503A. It's a very high-performance DOCXO, in the same class as the > legendary HP 10811, and better than the one in most surplus Thunderbolts. > The 5 MHz output is multiplied up to 10 MHz in at least one unit, and 15 > MHz in both units. I don't have the ability to measure phase noise on > these outputs, but I'd be interested to see the results if someone could. > > Nomenclature: The Z3810AS (there always seems to be an "S" at the > end) is a system consisting of the Z3811A (the unit containing a GPS > receiver), the Z3812A (the unit with no GPS receiver), and the Z3809A (a > stupid little interconnect cable). The GPS receiver inside the Z3811A is a > Motorola device, presumably some version of an OnCore. > Where the Z3811A has a TNC GPS antenna input, the Z3812A has an SMA > connector labeled "10MHz TP". That is indeed a 10 MHz output. It comes > active as soon as power is applied to the unit, and its frequency follows > the warmup curve of the OCXO. The two units have identical PCBs (stuffed > slightly differently), and I have no doubt that someone can figure out how > to add a 10 MHz output to the Z3811A as well. > > Operation: From the outside, these units are broadly similar to earlier > units in the Lucent RFTG series. The (extremely valuable) website run by > Didier, KO4BB, has a lot of information on those earlier units, much of > which still applies here. The purpose of these units was to provide a > reliable source of frequency and timing information to the cell-site > electronics. The 15 MHz outputs from both units were connected to a power > combiner/splitter and directed to various parts of the transmitter. The > units negotiate with each other so that only one 15 MHz output is active > at a time. The outputs labeled "RS422/1PPS" contained a 4800 baud (?) > serial time code as well as the PPS signal, which were sent to the control > computer. > > Power is applied to the connector labeled "+24VDC" and "P1", in exactly > the same way as the earlier RFTG units. Apply +24V to pin 1 and the other > side of the power supply (GND or RTN) to pin 2. In these units, that power > supply goes directly to an isolated Lucent DC/DC converter brick labeled > "IN: DC 18-36, 1.9A". Presumably you can run both units with a 4-amp > supply. > > Once you have applied power, connect the Z3809A cable between the jacks > labeled "INTERFACE J5" on each unit. The earlier RFTG units used a special > cable between two DE-9 connectors, and it mattered which end of the cable > connected to which unit. The interconnect for these units is a > high-density DE-15 connector (like a VGA plug). The Z3809A cable is so > short that the two units need to be stacked one above the other, or the > cable won't reach. It doesn't seem to matter which end of the cable goes > to which unit. I don't know whether it's a straight-through cable, or > whether you could use a VGA cable as a substitute. > > When you apply power, all the LEDs on the front panel will flash. The "NO > GPS" light will continue flashing until you connect a GPS antenna. > Once it sees a satellite, the light will stop flashing and remain on. > The unit will conduct a self-survey for several hours. Eventually, if all > is well, the Z3812A ("REF 0" on its front panel) will show one green "ON" > light and the Z3811A ("REF 1") will show one yellow "STBY" > light. This means that the Z3812A is actually transmitting its 15MHz > output, and the other one is silently waiting to take over if it fails. > > Most time-nuts want to see more than a pretty green light. The old RFTG > series allowed you to hook up a PC to the "RS422/PPS" port and peek under > the hood with a diagnostic program. The program is available on the KO4BB > website. It is written for an old version of Windows, and I had no luck > getting it to run under Windows 7. It does run under WINE (the Windows > emulator for Linux) on Ubuntu 12.04 LTS. > To use it, you need to make an adapter cable to connect the oddball > RS-422 pinout to a conventional PC RS-232 pinout. The adapter cable looks > like this: > > RFTG PC > > DE-9P DE-9S > > 7 <----------> 5 > > 8 <----------> 3 > > 9 <----------> 2 > > (According to the official specs, this is cheating, because you're > connecting the negative side of the differential RS-422 signals to the > RS-232, and ignoring the positive side of the differential signals. > However, it's a standard hack, and it's worked every time I've tried > it.) > > With that adapter, you can see the periodic timetag reports from the unit. > The RFTG program will interpret these timetags when it starts up in > "normal mode". However, when I try to use any of the diagnostic features > built into the program, it crashes WINE. The timetag output was required > for compatibility, but I suspect that HP didn't bother to implement the > Lucent diagnostics. > > Instead, they added a connector which is not on the previous RFTG series. > That connector is labeled, logically enough, "J8-DIAGNOSTIC". > It too is wired with RS-422, so you need to use the same adapter cable as > before. Once you do, you'll find that this connector speaks the usual HP > SCPI command set (Hooray!). I used the official SATSTAT program (again > under WINE on 12.04 LTS), but I'm sure that other programs written for > this command set will work as well. The default SATSTAT serial port > settings of 9600-8-N-1 worked for me. > > After about 24 hours, with a poorly-sited indoor GPS antenna, my system > has converged to TFOM=3, FFOM=0 (the best possible numbers), and a > "predicted 24-hour holdover uncertainty" of 5.2 microseconds, which is not > too shabby. It found the correct day and year without any assistance, so > if it has a "GPS week number rollover" problem, it's still in the future. > I don't currently have the ability to compare the 10 MHz output to > anything else. Again, if someone else can, I'd be interested to see the > results. > > Additional Notes: The parts on the boards all have date codes of 1998 or > 1999. The Motorola GPS receiver has a firmware label that reads > "02/04/00". The SCPI error logs inside the HP units were virgin when I > first got them. They had 84 and 94 power cycles, respectively. > Before the GPS receiver acquired time, the error log timestamps read > "2000-05-09 00:00:00", which I interpret as a firmware release date. > > The PCB has an interesting feature. Next to each soldered-in pin of the > Milliren OCXO is a single-pin socket soldered into the board. I'm guessing > this was used in manufacturing, to temporarily install a Milliren and > confirm that the system worked before permanently soldering it in. (At > production prices, the Milliren would have cost far more than the rest of > the PCB.) You might be able to use this in reverse, if you have a set of > Millirens to test from another source. > > The Z3809A interconnect cable has three of the 15 pins on each end clipped > a bit shorter than the rest. Not so short that they won't eventually make > contact, but short enough to make contact later than the rest. Don't know > why, but it's clearly deliberate. A lot of hot-plug connectors are built > that way, including USB connectors. I have no idea what the pinout of the > interconnect is. > > The redundant system slaves both DOCXOs to the same GPS reference. > Inside the GPS loop bandwidth, the two oscillators will have almost the > same frequency and will differ only by phase noise and short-term > stability. This is almost a perfect setup for experimenting with certain > kinds of time-nut measurements, assuming someone can figure out how to get > 10MHz out of the Z3811A unit. If you then command both units into > holdover, you could measure longer-term stability as well. > > The units are described as "new in factory sealed box". After an > archeological investigation of the various strata of labels and tape on > the boxes, I would say that's probably accurate. My set seems to have been > shipped from the Agilent factory in Korea to Symmetricom in Sunnyvale, CA > sometime in August, 2000, shortly after it was built, and remained > untouched until I opened it. I'm guessing it was built and saved as part > of a spares program for Lucent, and kept until Lucent decided they didn't > need spares any more. > > I have no connection with the current seller of these units (or any other > sellers, for that matter) except as a satisfied customer. I think I'll > order another set as a spare, before the feeding frenzy hits. > > Request for help: Both the SatStat and RFTG programs run under WINE on > stock Ubuntu 12.04 LTS (32-bit) without any tricks or special > configuration. Neither seems to run under WINE on Ubuntu 14.04 LTS > (64-bit). I am a WINE novice. Any hints from WINE experts would be > appreciated. Also, I've been able to run TimeLab under WINE, but I can't > connect it to my USB-to-488 interface, so I can't take data. If anyone can > tell me how to set that up, I'd be extremely grateful. > > Cheers! > --Stu > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- [email protected] To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- [email protected] To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > > > > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- [email protected] To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- [email protected] > To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. _______________________________________________ time-nuts mailing list -- [email protected] To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. _______________________________________________ time-nuts mailing list -- [email protected] To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
