On the power amp I have found what I believe is the place to inject a signal in to to drive the output. Will try it tomorrow. I plan to leave the 15 MHz alone as no idea if something else does use it. Essentially leave the signal that feeds pin 8 of the analog gate alone. The cap that feeds the output system is just beyond that point. Sort of. Regards Paul WB8TSL
On Mon, Dec 1, 2014 at 9:05 PM, Bob Camp <[email protected]> wrote: > Hi > > My *guess* from looking at roughly how the circuit runs from the OCXO to > the 15 MHz power amp and then over to the output connector: > > 1) There is a fairly complicated filter on the output of the amp. It might > have traps in it for 5, 10 and 20 MHz. No need for all those parts in a > doubler…. > > 2) What ever is turning 5 into 15 MHz is doing a good job. If it can be > tweaked to double rather than triple that could move things forward quite a > bit. > > 3) If the 15 MHz is used by the “rest of the box” it’s not on any of the > pins I poked. There are a lot of pins, so I could have missed something. > > Obviously my hope is to find a magic IC and move this pin or that pin to > somewhere else. Now it doubles rather than triples. The rest of the box > runs fine. Then you start pulling out coils or caps in the output filter. > > Lots to dig into. > > Bob > > > > On Dec 1, 2014, at 7:54 PM, paul swed <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > Bob > > I really have the board setup now for digging in. You are right the 10 > Mhz > > going into the 74act14 pin 1 is dirty. By this I mean transistors 208 and > > 209 that amplify the 10 Mhz are over driven and thats intended. The > second > > harmonic is only 20 db down. The actual 5 to 10 Mhz is Q202. Following > the > > collector, goes through a number of filters. At the top of the filter a > > inductor 150J and another R22J goes to a small coupling cap and > ultimately > > to Q209. > > > > To the side of the coupling cap away from Q209 the 10 Mhz signal is 500mv > > pp and the other signals are 39 db down. That looks like an interesting > > point to work with. > > > > As sugested it would be good to leverage the output amplifier of the unit > > and that seems like a pretty reasonable thing to look at. Plus there > would > > be no need to drill another hole for a connector. > > Need to figure out how to snitch a bit of the 10 Mhz signal and then > buffer > > and isolate it. > > Regards > > Paul > > WB8TSL > > > > On Mon, Dec 1, 2014 at 6:37 PM, Bob Camp <[email protected]> wrote: > > > >> Hi > >> > >> Yes, one of the “great unanswered questions” about the KS boxes is how > to > >> quickly and easily switch them from a nice clean (useless) 15 MHz > output to > >> a nice clean (useful) 10 MHz. The circuit appears to be all discrete > >> analog. That suggests that a “jumper this, swap that” approach might > work. > >> > >> Bob > >> > >>> On Dec 1, 2014, at 10:11 AM, paul swed <[email protected]> wrote: > >>> > >>> To address the one question Ref1s have no 10 Mhz. Just 15 MHz. > >>> I have reversed out the various paths but it seems so have others. Must > >>> have missed that thread. I do see the 5 to 10 doubler is in the > q200-q203 > >>> region. I can't speak to the qualities of the signals and still have > not > >>> found the magical X+Y= 15 Mhz. > >>> So what are folks doing that just have ref 1s? > >>> Is this the discussion on buffering the 5 Mhz and doubling? > >>> Regards > >>> Paul > >>> > >>> On Mon, Dec 1, 2014 at 7:43 AM, Bob Camp <[email protected]> wrote: > >>> > >>>> Hi > >>>> > >>>> Given the level of phase noise on the Ref-0 10 MHz output, I would not > >>>> *want* to use the same pin they get that off of …. > >>>> > >>>> Bob > >>>> > >>>>> On Dec 1, 2014, at 6:25 AM, Götz Romahn <[email protected]> wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>> @ Paul > >>>>> yes pin 1 of U206 is the input of a schmitt-trigger ( xxACT14 ) where > >>>> the rectangular 10 MHz output on the Ref-0 Modul is generated. > >>>>> > >>>>> @ David > >>>>> 10 MHz is not available on the Ref-1 module, the one with antenna > input > >>>> (yea, but it is still at pin 1 of U206). > >>>>> > >>>>> Götz > >>>>> > >>>>> Am 01.12.2014 04:09, : > >>>>>> OK so it was not as hard as I thought getting all of teh screws out. > >> The > >>>>>> harder part is getting the actual board to slip out of the back. > >>>>>> After getting to the bottom I found a locked 10 Mhz signal on U206 > >> pin 1 > >>>>>> somewhat of a sine wave but compressed top and bottom at 5 V and pin > >> 2 a > >>>>>> squared up version. Pin 1 goes off to several transistors. Also I > have > >>>> not > >>>>>> looked at the rest of u206. > >>>>>> So good or bad a tracking 10 Mhz exists. Not so easy to get to > >> frankly. > >>>>>> Regards > >>>>>> Paul > >>>>>> WB8TSL > >>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>> time-nuts mailing list -- [email protected] > >>>>>> To unsubscribe, go to > >>>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > >>>>>> and follow the instructions there. > >>>>>> > >>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>> time-nuts mailing list -- [email protected] > >>>>> To unsubscribe, go to > >>>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > >>>>> and follow the instructions there. > >>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> time-nuts mailing list -- [email protected] > >>>> To unsubscribe, go to > >>>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > >>>> and follow the instructions there. > >>>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> time-nuts mailing list -- [email protected] > >>> To unsubscribe, go to > >> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > >>> and follow the instructions there. > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> time-nuts mailing list -- [email protected] > >> To unsubscribe, go to > >> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > >> and follow the instructions there. > >> > > _______________________________________________ > > time-nuts mailing list -- [email protected] > > To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > > and follow the instructions there. > > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- [email protected] > To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > _______________________________________________ time-nuts mailing list -- [email protected] To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
