Hi

> On Nov 29, 2015, at 11:31 AM, Tom Van Baak <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> Hal,
> 
> Right. The orbits are nominally circular -- but not exactly. The set of 
> orbital parameters cover these details. A quick google search suggests the 
> eccentricity for GPS is around 0.01. Still, that's enough to cause +/- 23 ns 
> of accumulated phase error per orbit. I'm pretty sure the receivers take care 
> of this math, since eccentricity is a key part of any orbit model. I wish we 
> could see the source code to a GPS timing receiver.
> 
> I'm not sure I understand your elevation question. Are you talking about 
> elevation as in mountain vs. sea level altitude? Or elevation as in satellite 
> Az/El?
> 
> GPS satellites in view are about 20,000 km (overhead) to about 25,000 km 
> (horizon) away, so the signal gets to you within about 65 to 85 ms. Whether 
> you apply the full 4.5e-10 relativistic correction or no correction to the SV 
> clock at all, it makes only a 1 cm time-of-arrival difference. That's why I 
> said for trilateral navigation purposes, the relativistic effects are in the 
> noise. For UTC time-transfer, however, an uncorrected 4.5e-10 frequency error 
> would continuously accumulate, giving 38 us/day phase error, the number you 
> often hear.
> 
> About survey grade -- I suspect the post-processing takes into account 
> anything you can think of, from the shape of the antennas to space weather to 
> the phase of the moon (literally).

Most survey work is done as a “delta from known references”. It’s much like 
common view time transfer. That alone takes care of a whole raft of things. 

If you dig into the gravity stuff, they get into questions like “do we put in a 
term for the gravitational effects of Pluto? Yes, there are Gravity Nuts….

Bob


> 
> /tvb
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Hal Murray" <[email protected]>
> To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement" 
> <[email protected]>
> Cc: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Saturday, November 28, 2015 2:37 PM
> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Einstein Special on PBS
> 
> 
>> 
>> [email protected] said:
>>> The GPS spec implies the satellites have a fixed frequency offset to
>>> compensate for relativistic effects.  But do they actually dynamically and/
>>> or individually adjust the frequency to adjust for orbit variations and
>>> eccentricities?         
>> 
>> I think the orbits are circular so the frequency won't depend on the orbital 
>> position.
>> 
>> The next question is does the math in the receiver have to correct for 
>> changes due to elevation?  Does it become relevant if you are trying for 
>> survey grade results?
>> 
>> -- 
>> These are my opinions.  I hate spam.
>> 
> 
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