> > Now, I admit I don't always have my facts straight, but in my following of this
> > case, it was my understanding the the parents and the Catholic church
> > believed that God's will should prevail, meaning that they were leaving it in
> > God's hands the fate of both wee ones.
> >
> > Regardless of what did happen, it is a gross distortion of Stephen to suggest
> > that the religious authorities (who are you talking about here?) were
> > unanimous in CONCLUDING THAT BOTH SHOULD DIE.  Where the heck do
> > you get off making such a statement?
 
> Jim's reply provides an excellent illustration of my point:
> religious belief leads one to support immoral decisions. Saying
> "God's will should prevail" in this case is exactly the same as
> saying "both should die." The former just sounds less brutal.

I obviously disagree.  

I'm sure "Let God's will prevail" has been used before, and will be used again, 
as an excusive for passivity.

I don't see that here.

> But this makes me curious about another matter. The Pro-Life
> Alliance (that's who we're talking about) supported the view that
> God's will should prevail.  They went to court to stop a medical
> procedure that could save the life of one over the certain death
> of two.

Perhaps you see it as a small point, but how *certain* were these deaths?

After all, wouldn't certainity require a certain level of faith, given that they 
could only make a prediction of the most likely outcome, not the inevitable 
one?

And we know of course that modern medicine always correctly predicts
the outcome.

> But why stop there? The twins were undoubtedly born by Caesarian
> section in order to save the life of three individuals--mother,
> Jodie, and Mary. Why was this operation permissible? Why wasn't
> "God's will" allowed to take precedence here as well?

Who said "God's will" cannot be accompanied by man's action?

I see your very good point -- taken to its absurdity, one could argue no 
medical interventions are ever necessary, because it is all up to God.

That is not taught biblically -- there is no biblical model of passivity.  Morally 
one is obligated to do whatever necessary to save lives, and that includes 
medical procedures.

> Perhaps the answer would be that at that point it appeared that
> the operation could save the life of all three. But couldn't
> the same argument be applied to the surgery to separate Jodie and
> Mary? Couldn't we argue that the operation should first take
> place, and then "God's will" would determine whether Mary (the
> weaker twin) would live or die, that "her fate would be left in
> God's hands" at that point?

Yes, one could make that argument.  But was one life terminated during the 
procedure, or not?  That makes a big difference.

> Let's review (I think I'm actually recreating a point first
> raised by Jim Clark about selective appeals to God). "God's will"
> can be invoked:
> 
> a) before the babies are born, leading to the death of three
> b) after birth but before separation, leading to the death
>    of two
> or
> c) after separation, leading to the death of one
> 
> My question: Why was "God's will" only invoked after (b)?

Again, who said "God's will" is simply a matter of God working and man 
doing nothing.  There is no biblical dichotomy of such. 

> I'm perplexed. Perhaps Jim can help.

I doubt you're perplexed, I'm sure YOU see this situation very clearly.

I couldn't imagine being in such a situation, and feel terrible for all who were 
involved.  


************************************************************************
Jim Guinee, Ph.D.
  
Director of Training & Adjunct Professor
President, Arkansas College Counselor Association
University of Central Arkansas Counseling Center
313 Bernard Hall    Conway, AR  72035    USA                               
(501) 450-3138 (office)  (501) 450-3248 (fax)

"if my people, who are called by my name, will humble
themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from 
their wicked ways, then will I hear from heaven and 
will forgive their sin and will heal their land."
  2 Chronicles 7:14

**************************************************************************

---
You are currently subscribed to tips as: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Reply via email to