> > Let's take another step. There is so often a wide chasm > > between the tenets of a religion and the inability of a > > follower to live up to them, abide by them, not to abuse or > > misuse them. > > And in the case of Judeo-Christian religions, that's a pretty > good thing. After all, the bible instructs people to put a child to > death for failing to honor his/her mother and father, informs us that a > woman is subservient to her husband who rules her in all things, > punishes adultery, fornication, or homosexuality with death, requires > women to remain separate from males during their "unclean" time of the > month (and to make an animal sacrifice before being "pure" enough to be > in their presence), and a LOT of other "wonderful" guidelines for life!
Once again the ax comes out for the grinding... For the sake of other listmembers, can we stick to the psychology of religion and try to stay away from theological disputes? I have no problem responding to your statements, and on the surface you make some good points (as have others), but I doubt others have much interest in a sermon. Having said that, one problem I see with your argument is a lack of understanding of biblical teachings. You've yanked out something out of context. For one, you're conflating the act and the punishment. If you read through the whole bible -- don't just stop at Leviticus -- you might meet someone named Jesus, someone who instituted a new covenant. That's why there are no animal sacrifices anymore -- for the Christian, Jesus is the perfect sacrifice. Further, one of his teachings is that a strict adherence to punishment would cause all to perish (familiar with the story of the woman who has committed adultery and those who try to stone her?). Jesus summed up the Law by preaching to love God and love your neighbor, and when He said love your neighbor, He meant love your neighbor, regardless of who he is and what he has done. Ever hear the biblical admonition "Hate the sin, love the sinner?" As far as your criticisms of biblical misogyny, the bible DOES NOT teach women to be subservient to her husband and be ruled in all things. The word is "submissive," not subservient. Spiritually she is his equal, but she has a different function. Just like all organizations -- government, education, businesses have different people for different jobs -- the spiritual family is no different. If you read on in one of those "submit" passages, the husband is required to love his wife, to cherish her, to even lay down his life for her if necessary. In God's plan, he is the benevolent leader, not a despot. If you've ever had a department chair, or any kind of boss, what was a wonderful person to work for, that was kind, that took your input, and yet in the end the boss made the final decision, ultimately was responsible for the performance and status of the company/department, that's kind of what I'm getting at. We seem to have no problem applying a hierarchy in all other systems of the community, but bristle when applied to the family. Why is that? Finally, as far as the "uncleanness" of the woman, I'd imagine that was a little more necessary out there in the desert. Than again, maybe it's still a good thing! > If a religion is to be measured not by the acts of individual > religionists but by the pure, unadulterated, teachings of the religion > itself, then it necessarily follows that the religions following the > bible are the least moral and most offensive belief structures ever > invented by humans--FAR outstripping the values and beliefs of Nazism or > any other system commonly viewed as "evil." And if you understood any of what I've argued above, you would see your criticism is simply not viable. Othewise, how do you explain that the overwhelming majority of the Christian religion's constituents are NOT out in the community committing a plethora of evil acts? Or are they just not paying as much attention as the ones who do commit evil? How do you explain that??? Jim P.S. Please accept my sincere gladness in seeing you return to the TIPS table. So what if I'm even more outnumbered in these kinds of discussions! ************************************************************************ Jim Guinee, Ph.D. Director of Training & Adjunct Professor President, Arkansas College Counselor Association University of Central Arkansas Counseling Center 313 Bernard Hall Conway, AR 72035 USA (501) 450-3138 (office) (501) 450-3248 (fax) "if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then will I hear from heaven and will forgive their sin and will heal their land." 2 Chronicles 7:14 ************************************************************************** --- You are currently subscribed to tips as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
