Jim Guinee wrote:
(re. someone else's comment that:)
> > There is a leap here that went over my head. How does rejection of the
idea
> > of a loving God translate into a lack of optimism for the universe?
Optimism,
> > morality, wonder, etc., can exist without a belief in God.
>
> But I'm willing to bet it's a much tougher enterprise...
Really? Why? None of these things are easy to measure, but...
In the real world, optimism seems at least a bit more common in the
nonbeliever compared with the believer, esp. as the latter group is skewed
by a large subgroup of outliers subscribing to the belief that the world is
a vile place dominated by Satan with only a small, select group of "saved"
folks. Ignoring that group, optimism seems to be roughly equal in the two
groups.
Belief in morality (that is, in the _existence_ of a morality) seems to
be roughly as common in each group, perhaps with a slight edge to the
believers. Actual moral behavior, on the other hand is clearly far more
common among nonbelievers compared with believers, a group again affected by
that problematic set of outliers. One need not hold that religion is
responsible for most of the world's ills to accept that religious
_fundamentalism_ is responsible for far more evil than is atheism, even if
just by pure volume. I don't think that there can be any real doubt about
that proposition.
Genuine wonder seems CLEARLY more common among nonbelievers than among
believers. Our recent discussions of creationism should have made that
abundantly clear.
Were it not for the existence of the fundamentalists, I'd say all three
of these characteristics were pretty close to being a "wash" between the two
groups. But if the fundamentalists are included in the group of believers
the advantage in morality and wonder clearly goes to the nonbelievers. I
suppose one might argue that the fundamentalists shouldn't be included
because the original statement was about the idea of a "loving God", but I
am all but certain that the fundamentalists themselves would claim that
modifier DOES apply to their beliefs.
=================
I suspect that your comment (Jim) is influenced by something about your
OWN beliefs, and those of others who share your belief in god. I suspect
that you're thinking something like "If *I* no longer believed in a loving
God, I'd lose my optimism, foundation for morality, and inclination to
wonder". And perhaps you're right - you very well might. But that is only
because you've had a life in which you tied those things to your belief in a
god. It's kind of like saying "If there were no English language, I wouldn't
be able to communicate - so people who don't speak English must not be able
to communicate". Well, no...
Paul Smith
Alverno College
Milwaukee
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