I am surprised that Paul speaks of making money and acquiring power as if it were a bad thing for a scientific society. I can't think of anything better to advocate for the science of psychology than an organization that makes money and acquires power, AND uses both in the service of advocating nationally and internationally for psychological science.
Now, we may argue whether APA IS that organization, or whether we would be better served by a different organization. But regardless, for any such organization to wield any influence at all, it is going to have to have money and power. I recognize that not all psychologists believe psychology should have a formal, science-agenda-pushing national presence, but for those of us who do, we will need to have money and power. Wally Dixon On 12/4/04 2:27 PM, "Paul Okami" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Patricia > > It is not that the APA does not offer useful services. It is that the APA > represents the degradation of the science of psychology, its transformation > from a profession to an industry, and its furtherance of highly destructive > social trends (e.g., the "psychologizing" of society). > > The useful services offered by the APA could occur in the context of a > professional society devoted to advancing the scientific aspects of > psychology (including science-based clinical psychology), rather than a > lobby group for an industry devoted to making money and acquiring power. > > regards, > Paul > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Patricia Spiegel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "Teaching in the Psychological Sciences" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Saturday, December 04, 2004 11:34 AM > Subject: Re: APA President-elect > > >> Yes Paul, I re-read your comment, and you are correct about not > criticizing >> Dr. Koocher. It was the same thread, and your statement of mass >> resignations from APA was in that context. That is what got to me. To >> quote: "If everyone lets their membership to the APA lapse in protest, >> maybe something will happen, but given that the APA is actually an > industry >> guild rather than a professional society, it is doubtful." >> >> Let me ask you something about that. What would we teaching psychologists >> do without the journals and the expansive data bases maintained by APA? > APA >> keeps our discipline's history fully intact, keeps us up with what is > going >> on now, and assures that future work in the field will be readily > available >> to us all. I think about that every time I pay my dues, and--recognizing >> that no other organization or publisher fills or would be able or willing > to >> fill that void should APA become weak--make out that check quite > willingly. >> >> RE: your criticisms of my comments, I believe I answered them. >> >> Patricia Keith-Spiegel >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Paul Okami" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> To: "Teaching in the Psychological Sciences" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> Sent: Friday, December 03, 2004 3:48 PM >> Subject: Re: APA President-elect >> >> >>> As I said, I know absolutely nothing about the man as was not > criticizing >>> him. For all I know, he is a saint. I was concerned about the premises >>> used to defend him against certain types of criticisms. My points were >>> directed toward Patricia's comments, not toward Dr. Koocher. >>> >>> Paul >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Patricia Spiegel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>> To: "Teaching in the Psychological Sciences" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>> Sent: Friday, December 03, 2004 5:35 PM >>> Subject: Re: APA President-elect >>> >>> >>>> Thanks, Stephen. I am glad you said it the way you did, because you >>>> don't >>>> really know Gerry, and yet he does stop to help anyone who he thinks is >>>> being treated unfairly. >>>> Paul O, are you on board to hear from the "target" himself? >>>> Tricia >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Stephen Black" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>>> To: "Teaching in the Psychological Sciences" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>>> Sent: Friday, December 03, 2004 1:15 PM >>>> Subject: Re: APA President-elect >>>> >>>> >>>>> On 3 Dec 2004, Patricia Spiegel wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Tell you what. If the two Paul's and Stephen will >>>>>> give their permission, I will forward this thread to Koocher himself >>> and >>>>>> let >>>>>> him respond to your concerns. I look forward to hearing from the 3 > of >>>>>> you. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> I have to admit that after writing my note concerning my dismay at >>>>> Dr. Koocher's apparent support for false memory therapy, pushing the >>>>> send key was one of the hardest things I've had to do on TIPS. I did >>>>> appreciate the help he gave me, and that note seemed like a poor way >>>>> to thank him. So I also have to admit that I was hoping that he >>>>> wouldn't find out about it. >>>>> >>>>> But (as I've been warning people), our posts are readily available to >>>>> anyone who knows how to google. And, in any case, he deserves the >>>>> opportunity to respond, although I imagine a president-elect likely >>>>> has other more pressing matters to concern himself with at the >>>>> moment. >>>>> >>>>> So my answer is yes, I give permission, and I look forward to his >>>>> response. >>>>> >>>>> Stephen >>>>> >>>>> ___________________________________________________ >>>>> Stephen L. Black, Ph.D. tel: (819) 822-9600 ext 2470 >>>>> Department of Psychology fax: (819) 822-9661 >>>>> Bishop's University e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>>>> Lennoxville, QC J1M 1Z7 >>>>> Canada >>>>> >>>>> Dept web page at http://www.ubishops.ca/ccc/div/soc/psy >>>>> TIPS discussion list for psychology teachers at >>>>> http://faculty.frostburg.edu/psyc/southerly/tips/index.htm >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> --- >>>>> You are currently subscribed to tips as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>>>> To unsubscribe send a blank email to >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> --- >>>> You are currently subscribed to tips as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>>> To unsubscribe send a blank email to >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> --- >>> You are currently subscribed to tips as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>> To unsubscribe send a blank email to > [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>> >> >> >> >> --- >> You are currently subscribed to tips as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> To unsubscribe send a blank email to > [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> > > > > --- > You are currently subscribed to tips as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > --- You are currently subscribed to tips as: [email protected] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
