On Fri, 27 Sep 2013 09:08:59 -0700, Stephen Black wrote:
>On 27 Sep 2013 at 10:31, Christopher Green wrote:
>> Pavlov clearly used a bell sometimes. He used it repeatedly. So the
>> answer to the question of whether Pavlov used a bell is clearly "yes."
>> It is the denial that he ever used a bell that is the myth
>
>I'll concede that there are two instances where Pavlov referred to 
>the use of a belll (not a buzzer) in salivary conditioning: 1) in the 
>report published in _Science_  in 1906 where he noted the 
>ineffectiveness of  the "violent ringing of a bell"; and (2) in the 
>description of a bell as a compound stimulus retrieved by Chris from 
>_Conditioned Reflexes_.

Far be it for me to come between two Canadians engaged in a pissing
contest but allow me to make a couple of points:

(1)  The film that Prof. Black refers to (i.e., the NY Times review) is
available on the web and can be downloadable here:
http://vimeo.com/20583313

It is a silent film with cards with Russian and English explanations.

(2) At about the 12 minute mark there is a transition to the classical
conditioning experiments beginning with the ringing of a hand bell
to produce a startle response in a dog.  The bell is not used in any
of the experimental displays that are presented but a key point made
in the series of experimental studies presented is that anything can be
used as a conditioned stimulus.  The use of the metronome is presented
but not only to show that it can be used as a conditioned stimulus but
that an animal can discriminate the clicking made at different frequencies,
only one of which is predictive of the unconditioned stimulus. This
is an interesting demonstration of discrimination learning.  Other species
including humans are used.  I personally like the use of the orangutan.
Members of Peta will lose their minds watching this video.

With regard to whether or not Pavlov used a bell as an unconditioned
stimulus in any experiments may I suggest that that interested parties
read the reports of the studies in the original Russian or have someone
familiar with Russian scientific writing read it.  English speaking folks
talking about what they think are in Russian scientific journals is like 
listening
to virgins talk about the joys of vaginal sex. YMMV.


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